Prophecy-Future-Whats gonna happen?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by H-kon, Jun 24, 1999.

  1. H-kon Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    312
    Then my suspicsions have been on the mark then. So you are basically saying that" I have to be Christian, because I am afraid of God". "

    Fear is one of the major problems on this planet incase you haven't noticed it. Being afraid of God just plain dumb, because God him/she/it can't do you no harm since you will never see God. God is within you, You are a piece of God. so you have to be afraid of yourself then no?

    If that's the case, if the God you are worshipping does indeed exist, then there would have been no need for him to give us logic, common sence, and the creative forces behind the human nature. We have those abillities so that we can think for ourselves instead of being dependant upon someone else. If us the humans break the rules so much, why did he give them to us? So that he can sit there ( White man with the beard theory) and laugh his head of while he could have removed those abillities and program his virtues into the humans to save the trouble..

    Doesn't make sence.

    I believe in God, but consider me more of a Wiccan( I have read some farieshaman)than a Christian. It just makes more sence.
     
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  3. Lori Registered Senior Member

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    1,065
    Ok, so I'm weird, but I'm serious. And no, I'm not afraid of God. I am a willing worshiper. I'm not afraid of anything. I want to do God's will because I want to do what's right, and to please Him. I am saved by His grace only, nothing more, and certainly not based upon anything I've ever done except for asking for forgiveness, and repenting, and asking Him into my life. I feel though, that since He is so full of grace to save me, that I WANT to do His will. Do you understand? I'm not afraid of anything!!!! Isn't that great? Not Satan, not aliens, not the end of the world, not anything!!!! Thanks Jesus!

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    God loves you and so do I!
     
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  5. Plato Registered Senior Member

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    366
    You see Lori, I don't believe you. You say to much you are not afraid of anything but in fact you are terrified !
    You can be angry all you want with me but I hope that at least you can admid it for yourself that you are afraid.
    Your whole world revolves around fear of all those things that you just mentioned. It takes no psychologist to see. Inside in oneself is the first step to true happiness so ask yourself : are you happy ?
    I'm sorry I'm going personal on you now but you are asking for it.
    Now it is your turn to trow all the shit at me, go ahaed.

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    "If I have been able to see further, it was only because I stood on the shoulders of giants."
    Isaac Newton
     
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  7. Lori Registered Senior Member

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    1,065
    That's OK Plato, you know I don't mind getting personal. Otherwise, what's the point of being a person? I'm really not afraid of anything. I'm not quite sure why you don't believe me. If I was afraid, do you think that I would risk doing what I'm doing? Flash asked me one time recently if I was afraid of the aliens. You know, I'm out here trying to fight them tooth and nail, and I guess she thought they may come after me or something. They can't. I know that. They won't waste their time on me cause they know that I know. The power of the Holy Spirit is stronger than anything else. I have power over Satan and over the aliens in the name of Jesus. There's no need to be afraid. Even of the end. I almost welcome it in a way. Though it's depressing to think about that souls will be lost, I am looking forward to being with Jesus. Hear ye, hear ye, you can cut my head off, disembowl me, rape me, torture me, come on give me all you got, cause I've got Jesus on my side. I'll die for him in a heartbeat. I'd stand in line to. There is the most powerful protection in the universe available free of charge through Jesus, and I've got it. I told Flash, if there's anyone out there who deserves an anal probe, it's gotta be me, but notice I'm protected. That's the only difference between me and an abductee.

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    God loves you and so do I!
     
  8. Plato Registered Senior Member

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    366
    Ok, perhaps I got a little carried away there. The reason why I think there is a possibility of rupture in your impenetrable shield against all evil is that it requires a condition : namely you have to believe firmly and with all your hard in Jesus, once you show even the slightest doubt terror comes rushing in.
    Still in a way I admire your firmness, but is all this strength really nescessary ?

    I rather prefer no conditions at all, doubt, believe, it doesn't matter : one lives, one dies why I don't know. Perhaps we will find out, perhaps we won't. If we do find out will we be happy or happier ? I don't know, but the thing is most things are always a lot more subtle then we first think. I think it will be impossible for us finite beings to totally comprehent the way and the meaning of the universe. I'm not sad for this because it would mean there is going to be something to find out for generations to come.

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    "If I have been able to see further, it was only because I stood on the shoulders of giants."
    Isaac Newton
     
  9. plain_insane Registered Member

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    11
    If the New Testament was written by men, who was the Old Testament written by? Also the story you posted, did you see that first hand or read about it in a newspaper written by. . . well who was it written by?

    Nice dodge on the wind question, but I am still waiting an answer.

    Now as to all the things the Bible approves or doesn't. I believe I have missed those. Do you have verses that I can look them up? Just as a suggestion on incest, read Lev. 18 being as that is OT and you seem to agree with that. The only instance of incest I can think of is in 2 Samuel, but he is punished and killed for that. The Bible makes it plain that it is wrong.

    who gives humans wisdom?
    God. (I don't expect you to believe this but it is true.)

    about the godly "mandates" as you put it. That is another post and I am unfortunately out of time on this subject. I will post soon on that topic.

    OK read in context. What does God make holy? His temple! I won't keep arguing this passage because you will not listen if I said it a thousand times. But let me answer your next question before you ask it. In the New Testament, it says we are not under the law but by grace we have been set free. This verse eliminates the rules about that. We believe in Jesus he makes us holy and no matter how deformed we are we are still holy and not profaning what God has made holy because it is us. It also says we are the temple of God. He lives inside us.

    Finally, one thought on homosexuality. The Bible says we are to love the sinner and hate the sin. I completely disapprove of the way they live, but I don't agree with the methods that that group chose to use. (I don't live anywhere near Oregon.) I do hate homosexuality, but Jesus came so that none should perish(even homosexuals) but that all should have eternal life by giving up sin(homosexuality) and trusting in him.

    There was also a comment about they didn't like the fact that Christianity had 1 condition is there anything that has less strings attached than that, a "free lunch" so to speak.

    Plain_insane
     
  10. Vanja Registered Senior Member

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    105
    I believe, as a Christian, that the End Times are here. However I do not believe that Jesus will be coming back on 1/1/00. The Bible states that He will come as a thief in the night. How can He sneak in if everyone thinks He'll be here on that date? We need to be sure that our hearts are okay with Him so we aren't left behind.
     
  11. Vanja Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    105
    I believe, as a Christian, that the End Times are here. However I do not believe that Jesus will be coming back on 1/1/00. The Bible states that He will come as a thief in the night. How can He sneak in if everyone thinks He'll be here on that date? We need to be sure that our hearts are okay with Him so we aren't left behind.
     
  12. Vanja Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    105
    I believe, as a Christian, that the End Times are here. However I do not believe that Jesus will be coming back on 1/1/00. The Bible states that He will come as a thief in the night. How can He sneak in if everyone thinks He'll be here on that date? We need to be sure that our hearts are okay with Him so we aren't left behind.
     
  13. PercyPea Registered Senior Member

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    50
    I beleive as a shambles, that vanja should be well observed for the shamblin 3 posts of exactly the same text

    well done vanja

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    Im a shambles, but Im Gods shambles!!
     
  14. Vanja Registered Senior Member

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    105
    Woops! Thought I edited. Sorry!
     
  15. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    P_I.....

    I may say the wind is the wind. You might say that God is God. In either case, then, there's not much to do about it. But you question the will of the wind, and my regard to it. I cannot choose what the wind can do. I can choose to stand out and get cold, or go inside and be warm. God may be, but you choose to believe in It or not. You ask me when I can no longer respect an event in nature over which simply occurs. Your faith, unlike the wind, must be a conscious choice.

    As to the story regarding the Oregon Citizens' Alliance ... I lived there while this was happening. I remember hearing the words of Lon Mabon and Phillip Ramsdell, the group's organizers. I remember working on a PAC campaign. I remember the day some "Christian" threw a firebomb through a window and killed two people in an exercise of "God's judgement". It all happened within sixty miles of me for five years. If such detail is necessary, though, I'll try to find some old copies of the ballot measure in order to demonstrate the thorough stupidity that these people dragged an entire state through.

    As for Biblical citations, it's been awhile since I spent petty evenings gathering dredge to throw at Christians. But I should be able to find them.

    Which returns us to godly mandates: I'm merely wondering how Christians reconcile the use of one part of the Great Work for political means while ignoring other parts which threaten not the political issue itself, but the logical structure motivating the issue. If we cite the Old Testament regarding homosexuality, what then do we say about the disabled, the blessed incestuous (I'll get that citation, for sure), or other contradictions between modern, libertarian conduct and the "Word of God".

    thx,
    Tiassa

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    "Let us not launch the boat until the ground is wet." (Khaavren of Castlerock)
     
  16. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    37,330
    Truestory ...

    I'm clipping a quote from your post:

    "... on account of his defect he may not draw near to offer up the food of his God. He may, however, partake of the food of his God: of what is most sacred as well as of what is sacred."

    Should we finish this? The biggest slap in the face to this passage in Leviticus is God's reason: "they shall not profane what I, the Lord, make holy." Okay ... there's a simple logical problem: God makes them as they are, and then forbids them from certain aspects of their culture because the way It made them offends It?

    Since I'm trying to demonstrate a selective error in the logic, we might look at God's comments in Leviticus. For context, as well, please bear in mind that the American Lutheran Church teaches its young from a "Good News" Bible, where I first read it this way. On this matter I cannot speak for other churches. But between Good News, NIV, and NAR Bibles, it seems that "God hates that" is a great justification for a lot of things.

    Really ... if I had to choose between having sex with sheep or not, my answer would be no regardless of the fact that "God hates that". I've heard about Alexander the Great. I simply don't want to die that way.

    I still wonder why the parts of the Bible which contradict an allegedly Christian philosphical or political position suddenly evaporate. I once read the Leviticus passage during a lecture sponsored by the University of Oregon Christian Coalition. I asked the same question comparing homosexuality and the handicapped. My answer came from a young girl in the audience who literally leapt up, waved her hands about, yelled "Praise Jesus!" and then declared: "Ephesians! Put on your armor!" And the room applauded. Please understand, I could care less about what people think behind their closed doors, but when they go to vote ... hey, their Democracy doesn't outweigh civil rights.

    In this aspect I might also ask God's opinion on fellatio and cunninlinguis. After all, these acts are still illegal in parts of the United States largely because people think it's "God's will".

    thx,
    Tiassa

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    "Let us not launch the boat until the ground is wet." (Khaavren of Castlerock)
     
  17. Searcher Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    651
    Plain_insane,

    Actually, I can think of a couple of examples of incest in the Old Testament, where no judgement seems to be passed on it whatsoever. First is Genesis 19:29-38, where it describes how Lot's daughters got him drunk and took advantage of him in order to become pregnant by him; the other is Genesis 20:12, where Abraham explained to Abimelech that his wife, Sarah, was indeed also his half-sister.
     
  18. Vanja Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    105
    tiassa-Look to the Message, not the messenger.
     
  19. Vanja Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    105
    Searcher-The Bible tells us that we are not be seen naked by opposite sex in-laws. I think that may cover incest. Being faithful to spouses and no premarital sex-plus not marrying within the bloodline or it will taint the offspring-covers all else.
     
  20. Searcher Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    651
    Vanja,

    That wasn't my point - I was merely pointing out to Plain_insane some passages in the OT that seem to condone, or at least overlook, the practice of incest. This was in response to the statement made by Plain_insane, "The only instance of incest I can think of is in 2 Samuel, but he is punished and killed for that. The Bible makes it plain that it is wrong."

    If the Bible has a personality, it could best be described as "multiple". Ever wonder why that is?
     
  21. truestory Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,122
    Tiassa,

    I read your post which stated:

    "... So, in other words, God doesn't like one batch of cookies because they don't look quite right, so he throws them out."

    The excerpt which I included in my post:

    "... on account of his defect he may not draw near to offer up the food of his God. He may, however, partake of the food of his God: of what is most sacred as well as of what is sacred."

    was used to point out that these individuals were not thrown out by God. Yes, at the time, they were excluded from the Levi priesthood which was being prepared to "represent" the "holiness" of God to the Isrealites.

    It is my understanding that the writings of the Old Testament were "inspired" by the Holy Spirit in preparation for the coming of Jesus Christ. I would like to re-emphasize, however, that I do not take the Bible literally - particularly the Old Testament. The main themes, however, I believe are important.

    From what I understand, the central idea of Leviticus, which was repeated often throughout Leviticus in keeping with the teaching of the relationship between God and man, was: "You shall be holy, because I, the Lord, am holy." The passage which you referred to, I believe, was taken from the ritual laws prescribed for the priests of the tribe of Levi who were being prepared to "represent" the "holiness of God" and, unfortunately, due to the limitations of the human mind and the culture of the time, those with "irregularities" would not have well represented the "holiness of God." In the limited minds of mankind at the time, the "irregularities" would have symbolized an imperfect God, thereby profaning God in the eyes of man. This would have been counter to the reality of God which was being taught.

    With all of the selective errors in logic (particularly in the Old Testament), I am thankful for the gift of Jesus Christ (God in the flesh), who was able to perfect the Word of God for us and who demonstrated throughout his life that we are all equal in the eyes of God.

    I'm with you Tiassa in that I am turned-off by organized religions and wierdness in church!

    Thanks for listening!
     
  22. Searcher Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    651
    Lori,

    Amos 5:18 says, "Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light."

    Matthew 7:21-23 says:

    "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

    And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

    You might want to think twice about wishing away your time on this earth, Lori.
     
  23. plain_insane Registered Member

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    11
    Then this is where I will say "goodbye". It is obvious that everyone on this message board already has their minds made up. I could throw just as many answers at you as you could throw problems with the scriptures at me. I have come to the conclusion that you would still not believe so with much regret I am going to leave.

    I have given answers to questions, but people don't accept them. Why ask a question and not accept the answer? There is no logic behind that.

    The wind blows and though you may be inside a house, the wind can tear down a house. Just because you may choose not to believe in God doesn't mean He is not there and His judgement will not affect you. I pray that all of you will someday find God. If not, I pity your souls, and will continue to pray for them.

    Other "Christians" may not act Christ-like, but only God knows who the real Christians are. I will neither judge nor make excuses for the Oregon group. They were wrong. I was not part of that so why judge me based on them?

    As for "blessed incest" that is a lie. Incest is unmistakeably throughout the scriptures called sin. I can not explain Sarai, but I will study it further. As for Lot's daughter's. They became prgenant(that is enough punishment for most women) and then their offspring became two of the leading enemies of Isreal in the Old Testament.

    Good-bye and may God bless you all.

    Plain_insane for the Lord
     

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