prove to me that god is real

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by dansufc, Apr 9, 2005.

  1. euphrosene Delusions of Divinity? Registered Senior Member

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    A few sweeping statements there Sarkus. At least as a believer, I am quite happy to live with the so-called irrational. What today may be codswallop (to some), could be a tangible fact of life tomorrow.

    However, your apparent belief seems to be in only the tangible. Science as any true scientist would agree, is founded on theories (eventually) realised.

    The 'reality' of belief is (for me at least) based on consciousness - hardly tangible - but that's another whole ballgame.

    Am about to have a cold bath (no hot water till tomorrow). So will catch up another time.

    Cheers Euphrosene
     
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  3. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    Yes - indeed - but while I accept that the intangible might be both plausible and a possibility - I do NOT hold a "belief" that it exists. But I do not go so far as to believe that it does NOT exist. See the difference?

    No - I have no "beliefs" - at least not in the religious sense (i.e. without evidence). The only beliefs I hold are really just subconscious assessments of probability based on plethora experience / observation etc - i.e. that the sky will not fall on my head - or that I won't suddenly float upwards.

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    Then this is where we differ - 'cos to me "consciousness" is ENTIRELY tangible - in that it is nothing more than a word we use to describe a vastly complex material process in a vastly complex material structure.
     
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  5. John Mark E Registered Senior Member

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    Why would a "predominantly atheistic forum" have a section on Religion to begin with, and then have a member ask such a question as that which led to this entire thread?

    I am sorry, but I cannot help it if you have been unable to provide ample "evidence" to refute my statements, and those of The Bible. Never once have you backed up a single one of your arguements in this thread. Everything you have stated appears to be nothing more than your opinion. At the very least, I have documented where I have gotten my information. Will your "scholarship" hold any more water than Godless' website documentation? I hope so, because those sites were worthless.
     
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  7. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    M*W: You hold no "scholarship." You have not researched nor studied anything beyond your lying bible. Perhaps, if you were to study the archeology and biblical scholarship, you would have a better understanding of the history that actually transpired. Therefore, you have no hope of acquiring any congninzance of the subject.
     
  8. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    M*W: You hold no "scholarship." You have not researched nor studied anything beyond your lying bible. Perhaps, if you were to study the archeology and biblical scholarship, you would have a better understanding of the history that actually transpired. Therefore, you have no hope of acquiring any congninzance of the subject.
     
  9. John Mark E Registered Senior Member

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    And if you would actually READ the posts I have made previously, you would note the archeological information I have already presented. I still have not seen any documentation which would support even the smallest statement you have made.

    Another point in which you err is that I have actually read, studied, and researched MUCH outside of The Bible. However, The Bible has been a starting point for this study. And in ALL points, The Bible has proven accurate, time and time again.

    You appear to have nothing more than opinion. It is only factual because you state that it is factual. And you still have not answered my questions.
     
  10. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    M*W: Again, you hold no scholarship. With every post you've made, you have lied because you refuse to hear the truth. You have provided absolutely no archeological proof of anything. You are just blowing in the wind. Your posts have supported nothing but lies.

    If you have studied outside the bible, then post you references so they can be peer-reviewed. Thus far, you have failed to prove anything but posting lies.

    For you to believe the bible is accurate is to prove that you are a fool. You can hope to pull the wool over the eyes of your fellow christians, but you will never be able to pull the wool over the eyes of the learned on this forum. Nice try, though.
     
  11. euphrosene Delusions of Divinity? Registered Senior Member

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    What's with all the accusations of 'lying' and 'lies'?

    The Bible is a subjective perspective on beliefs although archaeology has backed up some of the verses.

    But what does it matter whether it does or not? It is the message that is the 'reality' surely? That's what faith is based on.

    The dogma was presumably created for plankton minds who needed daily guidance in living... like knowing how to treat one's fellow man and so forth.
     
  12. Godless Objectivist Mind Registered Senior Member

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    yes euphro, the big problem is that theist try to force their doctrines on the rest of us, that has been happening for milliniums, in one part of the world they force one type of doctrine, in another little choice is given, "now" but was forced in the past. When a child is indoctrinated to BS what choic does he have but to accept the BS that is being told to him by authorative figures. And that's the problem.


    Theist like to blame all the ills of the world on secularism. Well they been runing the likes of people's minds for milliniums, they done nothing but creat controversy between different sects, doctrines and religious idealogies, furthermore they still force some doctrines in parts of the world to the point of choose or die!

    Godless
     
  13. John Mark E Registered Senior Member

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    Last edited: Aug 2, 2006
  14. ggazoo Registered Senior Member

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    prove to me that God isn't real ... without using absense of proof.
     
  15. euphrosene Delusions of Divinity? Registered Senior Member

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    Dear Godless, my name is Euphrosene (no abbreviations please) and if by theist you mean people who believe in God, as well as those who follow formal religions (not always the same thing), then, as my earlier posts have made clear, I am indeed a 'theist'. I call my bit of God the 'Big E' (taken from Wakan Tanka or Great Everything).

    A belief in god or God does not create controversy. It is belonging to formal or informal groups and using them to sway the balance of power - and they can be religious, national, sexist - even of football clubs.

    I doubt if people could run out of things to be divisive about whether there was acknowledgement of God or not.

    Earlier, I may have been a bit harsh about religious dogma... for some people it is a very useful support. It gives structure to their lives. The problem arises when they lose their ability to think independently as well.

    But not all people are like that. I was a devout Catholic for more than half my life (so far) and it has not stopped any inner exploration or being able to create my own faith now (entheism).

    Then there are mystics like Teilhard de Chardin and any number of physicists who remain within their faiths yet still mentally explored and even questioned.

    To be vehemently anti is every bit as limited in thinking as any radical or fundamentalist.
     
  16. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    Last edited: Aug 2, 2006
  17. John Mark E Registered Senior Member

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    Oh, so now I am unintelligent?!?!?!? I fail to see how personal attacks such as this mesh with the "scientific debate".

    When the evidence found, and offered clearly states otherwise, how can I not? How many times must one request this supposed information that "proves" that I am incorrect?

    I have not come to "proselytise". I have, not once, requested anyone to convert to my beliefs. The question was asked to prove God exists. I have simply tried to answer this as well as any other questions presented to me.

    If you were being at all "scientific" about this whole thing, it should be painfully obvious that you cannot have a debate without both sides of the issue being represented. In this case, we have the Atheist-side of religion very well represented. Who will represent the "Theist" arguement?

    Proving God exists has nothing to do with pros and cons, yet it is the founding question of this thread. Quit trying to divert the question. I still expect to hear this dramatic evidence that proves me wrong in regards to the God of Israel.
     
  18. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    M*W: There is no one here who will defend the theist side with any credibility.

    What you call "personal attacks" are factual. Those who believe in fairy tale characters are "unintelligent."

    You say you don't come here to "proselytise," yet you do, and you CANNOT prove that a god exists! I'm sure every atheist on the forum would like for you to prove that your god exists. Yet, you haven't done so.

    Call it whatever you want, God of Israel, God of Jacob, God of Moses, God of John Mark E, etc., etc., etc.. It doesn't exist!
     
  19. euphrosene Delusions of Divinity? Registered Senior Member

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    Perhaps not. But then neither does the 'other side'.... and rising emotion serves neither side.

    I presume he still breathes and, in my belief, that IS the divine spark. Temples of God and all that...

    Euphrosene
     
  20. audible un de plusieurs autres Registered Senior Member

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    ? who still breathes.
     
  21. euphrosene Delusions of Divinity? Registered Senior Member

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    Yes - a might clumsy but yes.

    Surely a sign of a closed mind? Whatever happened to imagination? After all as I believe Einstein said, it is more important than knowledge.

    Interesting... and possibly another thread.
     
  22. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    I can certainly IMAGINE that it exists - but without evidence I will not have a belief that it definitely DOES exist.

    I am fully open to the possibility that God (depending upon definition) exists. But without evidence I am not going to believe that God does exist.
    Until there is evidence God will remain as possible as the infinite other things that I can imagine for which there is no evidence.

    The only way I could claim God does NOT exist would be to logically disprove the existence of God.
    Depending upon the definition of God - this is not easily done - especially with the "Initial Cause"-type of God that then leaves the Universe to go its own merry way without ANY intervention from the Creator.
    Logically possible - but not something I would BELIEVE in as there is no evidence.
     
  23. euphrosene Delusions of Divinity? Registered Senior Member

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    I think that's the whole divine paradox... although I have had an 'experience' that made me aware of God as Infinite Creative Source. The awesomeness was rather frightening actually.

    Anyway, enough. Belief is really not that easy to explain - that's why it's a belief, I suppose.

    I could give several examples of the reality of my bit of God to me, but some guy or other would expound on any illogicality or try to find pragmatic reasons to explain them away. That is their belief and that is how it is manifested in turn.

    I write simply to share, not to preach or make people believe as I do. If I butt into someone else's thread it is in the hope of re-balancing an argument only.

    Cheers Euphrosene
     

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