PSA for Trump supporters

Discussion in 'Politics' started by billvon, Jan 29, 2021.

  1. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,436
    Listen up Trump supporters! We really have to get a few things straight here.

    Trump lost the election. COVID-19 is real and it is a big problem. California fires were not started by secret Jewish space lasers. School shootings are not a hoax. Alternative facts are lies, not facts. The Capital riot was due to Trump supporters listening to Trump, not secret Soros-funded Antifa false flag actors. Vaccines work. So do masks and distancing. Science does actually work, and it isn't based on the popularity of a Facebook meme. Hillary Clinton is not actually a cannibal vampire pedophile murderer who lives under a pizza place in Washington, DC. We checked and that's actually not true.

    Y'all had some crazy and fun ideas, but this shit is starting to not be funny any more. Too many people are dead.
     
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  3. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    7,537
    at my age
    psa
    means
    Prostate-Specific Antigen

    it seems that you had something else in mind
     
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  5. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Republicans.
    Not Trump supporters: Republicans.

    The word is easy to spell, has fewer letters, more accurately identifies the Americans involved, and will still work when https://driftglass.blogspot.com/2021/01/once-more-unto-memory-hole-dear-friends.html Trump has been bulldozed into the Memory Hole but the necessity of getting things a bit straighter with some folks remains.

    Let's not get fooled again, Ok?

    Because in the past when getting things straight with those folks has been postponed too long,
    when they have been aided and abetted regardless of what they are up to,
    when they have been treated with respect regardless of what they say and do,
    when their little forays into armed and violent fantasy worlds have been tolerated and appeased

    the reckoning has been kind of a - you know - bummer: https://driftglass.blogspot.com/2021/01/the-snowflakes-have-never-tasted-real.html
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2021
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  7. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Good point. I will switch to Trumpies.
    Nope. Of the republicans I know, none of them believe the stuff I listed above - except for the Trump supporters I know, who believe one or two of the above. The worst case I know thinks that Trump won the election and that COVID-19 is no worse than the flu.
     
  8. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,848
    Anyone who remained Republican after 1992 is a Trump supporter.
    That's the line Charlie Sykes and the pack are selling. ( Here's Sykes: https://twitter.com/rulajebreal/status/1356273048681410563 Note the big lie: it's the word "now")
    Too late.
    More than 85% of the Republican voters in the last few elections gave credence to - granted respect and consideration - at least some of the stuff you listed (and your list was far from complete, if your aim was reform rather than deflection).

    You have to get things straight with Republicans, not "Trumpies", because it's Republicans who will be voting and running governments and bringing the crazy in the future as they did in the past - that's how we got Newt Gingrich (the single most frequently invited guest on "Meet the Press" in 2009 - which would be just about the last year anyone could realistically claim to be a Republican but not a supporter of whoever the entire Republican Party endorsed as their latest leader and representative)
    And the better cases are also Republicans, not "Trumpies".

    I rest my case.

    That is: you have become uninformed, somehow, about the nature of the Republican Party and its membership - which overwhelmingly voted for Trump in both 2016 and 2020. Your Overton Window of "acceptable Partisan behavior" has been jacked way off center; and that didn't happen just a couple of years ago, or when Trump took his little ride on the escalator.

    Look: We have known for forty years now that the Republican Party made a deal with the devil in 1980. The simple fact that any of these people you know are still Republicans in 2021 meets the "reasonable standard" of evidence for their co-option by the crazy - and the evil. Why would any sane adult have remained in that Party after the invasion of Iraq in 2003? It can't be simple ignorance - the photos from Abu Ghraib and Gitmo, the eyewitness accounts from Bagram and Diego Garcia, were mainstream news.

    My guess is early stage propaganda-driven Tea Party amnesia redux - the Republican Party is once again extricating itself from its latest bed-shitting Presidency by blaming some people it can bury. Given that, any citizen of this democracy who understands what it's like to be governed by fascists has a duty in front of them: prevent that from happening. Make sure the Republican Party is held to account this time, as a Party.

    For balance: history. And this is a science forum - we can focus.
    Try revisiting this one, for example, over the past few decades, from a Partisan perspective - (so: with an inflection point during Reagan's first term, when he announced that US scientific military research would be organized around a cartoon fantasy of space lasers (and set out to bankrupt any media news and information source that tried to blow a whistle on the project)).
    You'll find scientific reality denial in at least a few of the following issues has been all but universal among Republicans: Vaccines, GMOs, Darwinian evolution, socialism vs fascism, the launch of the Iraq War in 2003, nuclear power and weapons, ozone depletion, supply side economics, miracles, racial disparity in all areas of law enforcement, the causes (especially the criminal ones) of the 2008 economic crash, known racial disparities in inherent "intelligence" or mental capability, known sexual disparities in inherent intelligence or mental capability, the role of predator removal, controlled burns, or pesticide/herbicide application in wildlife management, the physical or historical accuracy of Biblical accounts, the existence, source, nature, and likely effects, of CO2 boosting in the lower atmosphere.

    Do not let this Party off the hook again. It will find a new Reagan, a new Bush, a new W, a new Palin, a new Limbaugh, a new Coulter, a new Pence, a new Romney, a new Trump. It will get Louis Gohmert elected to the Vice Presidency.

    Trumpies = Republicans, Republicans = Trumpies. Where goes one go all.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2021
  9. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    19,436
    So you are claiming that all republicans support Trump? That is trivially easy to disprove, and anyone who has read any news in the last month can see it.

    (Unless you are heading into "Mainstream media is all LYING! It's a CONSPIRACY!" land.)
     
  10. mathman Valued Senior Member

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    1,828
    Most (not all) Republicans support Trump and insist that the election of Biden was a fraud.
     
  11. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    I'd agree with the first, not the second. From what I've seen about 80% of republicans support Trump. The remainder are staying republican (but not supporting him) or leaving the party altogether.

    About 40% of republicans think that the election was a fraud.
     
  12. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    15,398
    I have come to the conclusion that their goal is not to spread any version of what they consider truth. Even they don't believe what they're saying.

    Their goal is to erode the nation's confidence in any institution of the current US - voting, political discourse, accountability, graceful transfer of power, objective media.

    They are attempting to dismantle the US and remake it in their own image.
     
  13. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    For Trump supporters - I agree. They really have no goal other than power. They use the Big Lie, for example, not because they feel strongly about dishonesty or anything, but because it sometimes works.
     
  14. river

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    16,216
    trump is about power . Through manipulation of the uneducated .
     
  15. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    35,782
    A poll taken by Monmouth University on 25 January finds:
    • 56% of Americans approve of the House impeaching Trump.
    • 92% of Democrats approve, 52% of independents and 13% of Republicans.
    • 52% of Americans support conviction of Trump in the Senate.
    • 54% of Americans are "very confident" that the 2020 election was fair.
    • 72% of Republicans say Biden's victory was fraudulent.
    • About one-third of Republicans say they will never accept Biden as President.
    A Pew poll on 22 January found:
    • 51% of Americans say the outcome of the Senate trial should be Trump's removal from office. 46% say the trial outcome should not remove Trump.
    • 86% of Republicans and Republican-leaning Independents say Trump should not be removed.
    • 85% of Democrats and Democrat-leaners say Trump should be removed.
    • 40% of Americans approve of the way Trump handled his job as President. 58% disapprove.
    • 56% of Americans 65 years or old say Trump should remain in office. 63% of those under 30 say he should be removed.
    • Among Republicans, only 7% of those over 50 say Trump should be removed, in comparison to 26% of those aged 18-29 and 16% of those aged 30-49.
    • Black (82%) and Hispanic (66%) Americans say the Senate should remove Trump. 58% of White Americans say it shouldn't.
    • 64% of Americans without a college degree say the Senate trial should not result in Trump's removal. 53% of those with a college degree or more say Trump should be removed.
    It's the usual story: if you're American and old and white and uneducated and vote Republican, you're far more likely to support Trump than if you're not in one or more of those categories.

    Overall, about 8% of Republicans believe the Senate should convict Trump, which is probably a good pointer to how things will go with Republican senators when it comes to a vote, regardless of the evidence and arguments presented.

    By the way, the numbers in favour of, and against, conviction of Trump in the senate trial more or less mirror the numbers on voters' views of Trump's performance as President in general.
     
  16. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,848
    In case somebody thinks it's just me, or it's recent: https://driftglass.blogspot.com/2021/02/its-not-trumpism-its-republicanism-part.html

    The routine warning from my corner of the political universe has been - for three or four years now - that the Reps were going to shake loose of the consequences to them of the horrible stuff they did during Trump's tenure by attaching it to "Trump" or "Trumpism" or whatever and sinking it into the Hadal Zone of American history - stuff nobody considers or discusses on major media, such as the economic and political events under modern Republican federal administrations.

    And that's how one gets a Trump, a W, elected: bury the past, substitute slander etc. Memory enables prediction, informs preferences, guides policy, saves the cost of relearning facts - those are leftwing benefits, in the US since Reagan. If this adventure with Trump is somehow not remembered as a specifically Republican disaster, if the people who managed to get the entire US news media to ignore or bothside the last thirty or forty years's behavior of the Republican Party in the US while playing footsie for ratings with a fascist demagogue succeed again, if the Republican Party is hosed off and restored to power and dressed up as a legitimate political Party with an agenda it can admit and some kind of strategy or set of policies for governing the country, that Republican Party (this one, the one that exists in real life, the one that is currently doing all it can to prevent the incoming administration from getting anything done regardless of the cost in lives and treasure)

    will nominate and quite possibly elect yet another W, Reagan, or Trump.

    They would have to: there isn't a single honorable, competent, reasonably honest, decent, and electable candidate for the Presidency in the Republican Party. After decades of fascist administration and organization there is no Republican politician with both national experience and personal integrity. Gingrich and the lads purged most of the remaining fringe way back in the 90s, time's attrition has done for the rest.
    - - - -

    To paraphrase Josef Stalin: it's not voting that counts, but counting the votes.
    Mind: your friends teach you what you can do, your enemies teach you what you must do.
    In a representative democracy we must count the votes.

    That is: the Republican Party cannot be rehabilitated. As a Party in a representative democracy it no longer exists - fascism destroys representation on principle, as incompatible with fascist governance.
    ( for example: We have even seen it attempt to prevent people from counting votes, the identifying core task of a democracy and the first responsibility of a democratic government, by threatening them with physical violence. In 2000 it succeeded - and openly stole the Presidential election of what had been the world's pre-eminent representative democracy. )
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
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  17. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    3,137
    I think this--the bolded portion--is a myth. The uneducated might be somewhat more likely to support Trump, but the difference is not nearly so stark as many are wont to make it out to be.
     
  18. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    i get what your saying but look at the push back against them? the base hates them and they are not in the majority
     
  19. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    There is decent support for that statement. It is, of course, impossible to get accurate stats on an election that is by design keeps votes anonymous - but the average educational level in a county was a VERY strong predictor of whether it went for Trump or Clinton in the last election.

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/education-not-income-predicted-who-would-vote-for-trump/
     
  20. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    19,436
    Agreed. Like I said, about 80% of republicans still support Trump.
     
  21. river

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    16,216
    That is troubling . They have been mezzemerized . By trump .
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
  22. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,848
    Spelled: Republicans.
    The two spellings have almost opposite meanings.
    No.
    There is, for example, a fringe of aberrant self-identified "Republicans" who have opposed the real life Republican Party and voted against it consistently for the last few decades.
    Do you have an honest reason for asking that question?

    Only the ones who support the Republican Party, vote for candidates according to their professed loyalty to that Party or its recognizable agenda, believe its media feed and think tank output, give money to organizations they know are financial backers of the Republican Party that supports Trump, and so on.

    In other words: The ones anyone can see are supporting Trump, including those who are proven supporters of the Republican Party that Trump controls and that supports Trump
    .
    - - - -
    That is standard for American politics since Reagan - it took a lost war with ludicrously corrupt contracting, a disastrous hurricane whose damages were multiplied by Federal incompetence that attained absurdity (it took out a major port city because the US government was unable to maintain its levee system, volunteer responders from western Canada were on the scene rescuing people and saving lives for two days before FEMA showed up, trucks full of ice that could not be coordinated were parked all over the continent awaiting instructions, the temporary housing eventually set up for the refugees was built with toxic materials that harmed children especially, etc etc etc), and the second most damaging (by some measures the largest and most severe) financial crash in US history, just to get enough Republican voters to stay home in 2008.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
  23. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    35,782
    I agree with you, and the poll result I cited above tend to support that. There's some bias in terms of education that probably affects how likely you are to be deceived by the lies told by Trump and his ilk. But that still leaves a lot of Republicans who understand exactly who and what they are voting for, who do it for other reasons.

    If I has to guess, I don't think it was the smart ones, by and large, who were storming the Capitol. The smart ones were sitting at home, coordinating the assault from their computers.
     
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