Putin's invasion of Ukraine

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Saint, Jan 20, 2022.

  1. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    This is the source of that map that makes Ukraine the big bad bully! Note that Moscow is not even displayed on this map. Russia proper is 4 x times as big as displayed here. This is a false map showing Russia as being threatened by Ukraine (red zone).

    Romania borders Russia?

    https://orientalreview.org/2022/02/...n-to-lvov-risks-prompting-ukraines-partition/

    This is not a neutral news organization. C'mon sculptor, you cannot be that naive just because you have a personal grievance.

    Here is a little more realistic map.

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    Even if Donetsk and Luhansk seek independence that does not mean Russia has the right to wage war against Ukraine.

    At one time Eastern (French) Canada wanted to declare independence. Should the US have waged (un)declared war on Western Canada?

    If No.Mexico wanted to declare independence would it be right if the US bombed all of Mexico into oblivion?
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2022
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  3. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Ukraine is under attack from a foreign power. It is customary to suspend human rights in favor of national self-defense.
    How can you be so naive as to fall for Russian propaganda. You think Russia has more benign government than Ukraine? Ask Russians and they will refrain from responding , lest they be arrested and thrown in jail for sedition against the Russian State.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2022
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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    A great work of Russian civilizing efforts.
     
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  7. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    But that's the point.

    I actually know what he's talking about, but it's kind of funny that way: The one way to get the white supremacist militia on the same side as the Jewish president is to invade the country. We Americans would like to think our right wingers would do the same, but for all their talk of patriotism it's not clear that they would. Or perhaps Russia should invade the U.S. in order to denazify the Trilateral Commission of Proud Boys, Three Percenters, and Oath Keepers collaborating with George Soros to secretly run the Biden regime.

    In the end, this sort of desperate disinformation is what some of our neighbors have left in their toolkits. Anti-fluoride, anti-vax, satcomm tinfoilers, Christian Sabbatarians, backwood militiamen, and the list, even from my lifetime, just goes on. The thing is that it's about empowerment, and at levels personal and social, familial, official, societal, and even cosmological, people desperate just to feel like not every last thing in their living experience is out of their control will say some amazingly stupid things in order to feel like they have an effective hand in it. Mainline American conservatism hasn't been much different; it's just that when the illogic of certain traditionalism became so blatantly apparent that people couldn't ignore it, some desperate souls flung themselves out into fantasy. And while it can seem shocking in larger political issues, it's actually fairly common: Maybe it seemed strange when the moralists argued their fundamental moral corruption as the justification for merit of privilege, but the grassroots "dissatisfaction", as such, has been going on for a while. In its weird way, and within our Sciforums context, it's the same craven impulse for empowerment driving someone like Sculptor to denigrate himself shitting all over discussions this way as it was several years back when one of our longtime members went off about waifu dovi masturbatory fantasy in order to feel like he was having some sort of effect in people's lives. Sometimes, when people make fools of themselves, they do so because it is all they have left.

    Citations? References? These people don't actually care about that, James; that's not their point or purpose.

    Hey, do you remember the other day when someone was saying something about a lack of nuance? Yeah, the joke that goes here is so recursive it becomes tesseract. Wait 'til we get to the part about the lack of nuance seeking shelter in complaints about this or that lack of nuance. And remember, this has nothing to do with the nuance in my opinion of the lack of nuance about your regard for my opinion assessing a lack of nuance in your assessment of the nuances of my opinion.

    Oh, right, Ukraine: Apparently the Jewish guy is a Nazi waifu.
     
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  8. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Exactly. And now those neo-Nazi armies are being run by . . . a Jewish leader who lost grand-uncles in a concentration camp during the Holocaust. Only one member of that family survived the concentration camp - his grandfather.

    Do you even think before you post? Not everything you see in the right wing media makes sense.
     
  9. foghorn Valued Senior Member

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    1,024
    So you're now rooting for Putin because he's not a dictator, and you're happy to overlook Putin's shelling/ bombing of cities and other war crimes because he's not LBJ or Biden.
    What's keeping you in the States, go and help Putin overthrow a democratically elected Ukrainian goverment.
    You seem on this thread to be champing at the bit to defend Putin's war and crimes.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2022
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  10. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    8,320
    Patriotism is like a penis
    irrespective of size
    it is not a great idea
    to go waving it about in public.

    ........................................
    war sux
    .......................
    don't believe the propaganda
     
  11. foghorn Valued Senior Member

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    1,024
    Carry on supporting the shelling of cities Rod.
     
  12. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    8,320
    NO

    Not even a little bit.

    ........................................
    You ever shell peas?
     
  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    18,732
    Have you been in a warzone? It is not something to be taken lightly.
    Something like that almost happened here not too long ago. Remember, people died.
     
  14. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Does a "police action in a theater of operations" count?

    see the
    Gulf of Tonkin Resolution

    (no war---just a resolution)
     
  15. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    6,401
    So, your counting Russians killing and rapping people as geoneric?
     
  16. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    OK, let's see:
    Who was attacking Russia that allowed them to take "all necessary measures to repel any armed attack against the forces of Russia"?

    Don't you have this backward?

    Except for WWII, I don't recall any country attacking Russia. And certainly not Ukraine.

    What we are witnessing is Russia attacking a non-threatening sovereign Ukranian State and engaging in genocide of innocent civilians.

    A scorched earth "Ukraine Resolution". Something like Hitler's "Final Solution"
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2022
  17. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    8,320
    war sux
    and
    one thing that i can say about war is that those who start it will not fight in it.

    OK so now we have nato threatening to expand to Russia's borders, thereby threatening Russia.
    The leaders of the usa and nato have been trying to find someone foolish enough to threaten Russia(poke the bear with a stick), and with hollow promises they finally found a damned fool stupid enough to do it.

    By supplying a few antitank and antiaircraft missiles, our leaders just might be able to keep this war going up to the elections. And. Biden can stand in front of the cameras and declare: "We will make Russia pay" (even if it takes the last drop of Ukrainian blood and leaves not one scorched stone of their fine cities left standing).
    (bang up job so far)

    war sux
    and
    Anyone with the intelligence of a gnat knows that Ukraine can not win against Russia(especially if the battles are fought on Ukraine soil).
    So
    What's the end game?
    Who wins?
    more to the point: Who looses?
    Certainly not you!

    War SUX

    You may remember the "Cuban missile crises"?
    bottom line: Russia agreed to remove the nuclear missiles from Cuba, and we agreed to remove the nuclear missiles from Turkey. We considered the missiles in Cuba a threat, and Russia considered the missiles in Turkey a threat.

    If you would understand the future: Understand the past!

    WAR SUX

    Armies kill people and break things.
    How many have to die before the western leaders blood-lust is satisfied?
     
  18. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    20,712
    You'd have to ask Putin.
     
  19. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    18,732
    NATO is a voluntary coalition of smaller countries who have been occupied time and time again, to insure peace through strength and does not threaten anybody. It is not an offensive coalition.

    OTOH, Russia has a history of involuntary "annexing" unwilling smaller countries.
    Remember the Soviet Union and the brutal force used by Russia to keep that "coalition of the unwilling" t0gether? If that Union was so benign why did it dissolve?

    Whereas the voluntary and peaceful expansion of the coalition of Democracies keeps increasing without a shot being fired. Ukraine asked to be admitted to NATO for protection because it was afraid of Russia and with good reason. The proof is in the pudding.
     
  20. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    8,320
    sadly
    You seem to believe that hogwash.
    smaller countries
    invaded by france(a nato country)
    invaded by germany(a nato country)
     
  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    18,732
    NATO was formed because of those trespasses. NATO is a recent organization, founded after WWII, primarily as a defensive measure against Soviet expansionism.
    You may want to brush up on NATO. (see below).

    NATO/Founded
    April 4, 1949, Washington, D.C.

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    https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/nato#
     
  22. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    8,320
    Well then
    (that ain't a recent thing)
    Now, it is nato expansionism and potential aggression.

    Maybe:
    It's time to reign in the warhorse and train him to the plow?
     
  23. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    18,732
    No, it is Russia's expansionism and explicit aggression!

    Where are you getting these ideas? I just told you that a country must apply for membership and be qualified for acceptance. One of the requirements is being a peaceful democracy.

    You got this all turned around and backward, my friend.

    This was one of the reasons why Biden's son was in Ukraine. He was observing how the prior corrupt regime was being replaced by a more benign government under a new president Zelenskyy.

    You may remember how Trump tried to blackmail Zelenskyy by withholding 400 million dollars in defensive weaponry.

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    Trump–Ukraine scandal

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump–Ukraine_scandal

    To his credit Zelenskyy refused. This guy has principles.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2022

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