Putin's invasion of Ukraine

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Saint, Jan 20, 2022.

  1. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,607
    POWER is the ONLY thing Putin understands and in the face of NATO he is the little guy that will not survive, just like NAZI Germany.

    China will just stand on the sidelines hoping to pick up the pieces when its over.
     
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  3. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    US is the butcher who knows how not to make his hands stained with blood.
     
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  5. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    37,005
    Fourth-Wall Notes

    in re

    On Self-Invalidation: Throughout my time, self-invalidating arguments persist as one of the great mysteries of people's behavior. It's not that I can't follow this or that argument, but, rather, that doing so shows an argument invalid according to its own pretenses. As a living experience, stuff happens; but as a discursive prospect, people have long expressed frustration when taken at face value in this manner, though it remains unclear what anyone else is supposed to do.

    And in this, consider discussion at hand:

    Saint: [(in re Ukranian "self-destruction" and killing Russians)]

    Write4U: So Ukraine should just do what? Give their country to Russia?

    Sculptor: What would you suggest?

    And in that moment, how is, "National defense", not the obvious answer? What would I suggest? National defense. I would suggest Ukranians defend their nation. Yet, apparently, this runs in some sort of circle, because defending the nation is "self-destruction", and while this is its own argument for Saint to support or not, we can easily wonder, in considering Sculptor's point, at a soldier's self-invalidation.

    It seems a fair question: If national defense is off the table, then what the hell was anyone's military service for? The U.S., after all, is a nation that sallies forth abroad in order to fulfill its national defense pretenses; comparatively, foreign invaders marching down the street and blowing up the place is about as straightforward an occasion for national defense as anyone might find. That a soldier struggles with this concept is about as invalidating of soldiers as can be.

    We hire, train, and organize mass murderers, and this is ostensibly acceptable because it fulfills a certain allegedly necessary purpose. When the political argument abandons that necessity, what we're left with is just a bunch murderous gangsters.

    †​

    Here is a ridiculous pretense: 「Decades of "anti-imperialism" were just explicit anti-Americanism, because Russian imperialism should apparently be somehow defended, protected, rhetorically mitigated, or even coddled.」

    I know, I know. But compared to the ridiculousness of the pretense, there is also the absurdity of what it comments on. Contrachauvinism often feels like it makes a certain amount of sense, but in its moment gives the lie to generations of antisociality woven into a society. It would be one thing if the great leftist anti-American menace of traditionalist fearmongering rose up to support Russian romanticizing of the old Communist empire, but it's not; it's our anticommunists, antisoviets, and antiliberals. American capitalists have their own decisions to make, but American libertarians and conservative patriots backing Russian expansionism is its own context, and the stuff of legend; in the future, some people won't believe straightforward descriptions of what went on in these days, 「Because, come on, nobody's that ridiculous, right?」

    †​

    One last note: There is a circumstance that becomes quite difficult to explain, even though we perceive it frequently.

    If one will not stop unless someone kicks his shit, and another will lament that nobody is kicking his shit, then neither should complain when the neighborhood shitkicker steps up and kicks the shit out of the one.

    We might encounter it plenty around here, but what is striking about the moment is actually how it plays out in larger living expressions well beyond the odd corners beneath and behind the chatter and buzz of social media. Think about the idea of an American political movement that will eventually blame its behavior on the opposition for failing to kick the shit out of them at the height of their noncompetency. Perhaps even more jarringly, consider an imperialist-expansionist war run by a Russian strongman who isn't going to stop until someone stops him. And even more unsettling might be a prospect that the one admires the other.

    And as discouraging as it might feel to watch Republican politicians and surrogates pander to Putin's fancy, the hopeful part is the inherent reminder that it's not all the same. If it was, American conservatives wouldn't be praying for their own Russian strongman.
     
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  7. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    18,607
    So who is doing the killing , remind me.
    4 million displaced people. This is beginning to look like WWII which the US also did not start
    Stop with the false accusations.
     
  8. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,615
    So Putin is murdering thousands of innocent Ukranians - but the US is a butcher with blood on their hands.

    In your mind, is Nicole Simpson the REAL butcher of an honorable man who was just trying to keep his wife faithful?
    Is Hitler a misunderstood hero who just gave six million subhuman Jews what they had coming to them?
    Was Jack the Ripper an honest, upstanding man who merely dispensed justice to weak and immoral women?
    Was Jeffery Dahmer a misunderstood genius who was simply interested in anatomy?
     
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  9. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    18,607
    And when the military purpose is annexing other countries by force, we also have a bunch of murderous gangsters.

    Given the recent "violent scandal" at the Academy Awards, the "understanding and supporting attitude" toward Russia's unspeakable crimes against humanity is completely beyond my comprehension.

    Oh well, Hitler just wanted to do the right thing by his Arian compatriots. That's life.......

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  10. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    7,126
    spoilt easy life gamed against power & authority corruption
    pandering to selective morality by clique
    you have to play the game to be in the game
    if you want to win the game you need to be the game

    and so they all think its all a game

    button pressers

    or brutalised button pressers taught to brutalise (in russia s' case)

    the sins of the fathers
    the fathers who fought in the ar and never fathered
    it is their sins revisiting them
    and so the child becomes the nazi because the child has been given everything for free to fend off the need to take everything
    and the loop completes and the snake eats its head

    and the big machines turn grinding up people
    ridden by mild mannered maniacs playing demi god for a high school popularity contest

    & so now the grandchildren of those who fought the nazis
    ARE the nazis
    because of the sins of the fathers as their lack of knowing how to father
     
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  11. foghorn Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,006
    China wants Putin to end the fighting.
    ''this from China:''
    http://www.china-embassy.org/eng/fyrth/202203/t20220318_10653105.htm
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2022
  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,607
    "The most urgent task is for all parties to cease fire and end the fighting as soon as possible"

    There is only one party doing the fighting.! The other party is merely defending itself!
     
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  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,607
    Except in this game real people die.
     
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  14. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    7,126
    i did not elaborate sufficiently

    by game i meant people living their lives inside the system being the hapless consumer & not being accountable to respect and understand the real price of freedom.
    they are playing the game to get a job get money get a house get a promotion and things such as war have no meaning to them
    so the war is perceived like a make believe play involving there same political games that are used to win thier votes.

    meanwhile they themselves are raised as button pressers
    lacking true empathy and understanding.

    and to many it is just another media political game they can exploit for personal warped ideologies.

    i cant believe the German pro Russian protesters
    that blows my mind

    https://www.euronews.com/2022/04/11/in-germany-pro-russian-protesters-complain-of-discrimination
    https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...outnumbered-by-ukraine-supporters-2022-04-10/


    https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220410-pro-russia-protesters-rally-in-germany

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    i feel sorry for the true german people to have such a blight inside their country
     
  15. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    18,607
    Yep.
     
  16. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    37,130
    I asked you some questions previously, and you ignored them. Why? Here they are again:

    Where do your sympathies lie, sculptor? Are you with Putin when it comes to his war? Do you support the Russian invasion? All your posts seem to point in one direction. Why don't you tell us what you stand for?

    Are you just trolling?
     
  17. geordief Valued Senior Member

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    1,799
    My sense is that he is a blessed creature that alone among us realizes that they are all equally to blame

    But of course we have to half guess that through the haze of his benign pronouncements
     
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  18. foghorn Valued Senior Member

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    1,006
    What Sculptor supposedly doesn't like about it, is the suffering of the innocent, all because the west made Putin invade and kill civilians in the thousands by shelling cities. Biden is so stupid. Yet, not one word about Putin good or bad from supposedly concerned Sculptor.
     
  19. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    7,126
    more rockets & anti tank missiles
    if NATO can keep Ukraine troops well supplied with anti tank weapons, enough for them to also use against ground troop positions
    it will change the entire dynamic
    Russian Armour wont be able to move without fear of being hit

    that will force Russia to use artillery & waste cruise missiles which will open their lines and munitions up to drone attack and guerilla attacks

    if they blow up their artillery ammunition with drones while their Armour is pinned down
    it will be a crushing defeat for them because they cant resupply their artillery ammunition fast enough

    and their amour will be sitting ducks

    as long as the rails line are blown up & they are not repairing them
     
  20. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    7,126
  21. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    20,615
    What do you mean, "no word?" He's posted several musical interludes. And even some bafflegab when people ask him directly. He's better than a right wing politician at refusing to answer direct questions - and he wants to keep it that way.
     
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  22. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    20,615
    Poor Russia. Perhaps the right wingers here could start a GoFundMe for a new battleship.
     
  23. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    7,126
    decisive achievement

    guessing it will sink with its magazine on fire
     

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