Quantum Physics interpretation ideas

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by HawkI, May 9, 2017.

  1. HawkI Registered Member

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    Quantum Physics is a real part of nature and hard to comprehend as it's so different to our every day experience, I believe it is classed currently as an incomplete theory. Physical tests are hard to perform to verify ideas on this scale.

    I have recently been trying to come up with a pattern for Prime numbers, at present the best Mathematicians can do is predict where they will fall using Riemann's Hypothesis, this involves using imaginary numbers. I think it's important to come up with as many ideas as possible to try to understand anything we don't, so here are some ideas I've come up with.

    Cloud Of Probability :- When we say in an atom that the Electron/s teleport around the nucleus of Protons and Neutrons, they could be moving around in the 4th spatial dimension, imaginary numbers require an extra axis and are used in equations related to quantum Physics. So all Quantum could be moving around in the 4th special dimension. (Not 4D as time)

    Quantum Entanglement :- This phenomenon could be to do with loop variables, if one end is spinning one way the other end has to spin in the opposite direction.

    Quantum Gravity :- Gravitons could be at the Centre of Gravity attracting all other Gravitons with gravitational charge.

    Of course these are just ideas with evidence in the form of chain of reasoning, these ideas are to get other people thinking and interpreting.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2017
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  3. karenmansker HSIRI Registered Senior Member

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    A good start, Hawk!! Will follow your thread with interest . . . . IMO, expect many here to bedevil your effort with intimidating threats of the Standard Model and egotistical delusions of grandeur . . .
     
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  5. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    Thanks for posting in the proper forum. Have fun.
     
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  7. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Imaginary numbers are also used in alternating current theory. Spot the common feature.

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  8. HawkI Registered Member

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    Thanks Origin. Karenmansker I like the Standard model and hope to add to it until it's finished. For the cloud of probability you can see that Dirac's equation which uses imaginary number is an interpretation of the Schrodinger equation.
     
  9. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Schroedinger's equation also uses imaginary numbers.
     
  10. HawkI Registered Member

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    Ha ha ha I'm going to guess the common feature is that both alternating current theory and cloud of probability are both to do with waves. I only saw your post after I posted the second post.
     
  11. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Yup.

    You don't need to invoke a 4th dimension. The imaginary part just helps deal with periodic motion. eⁱˣ = cos x +i sin x. (Euler) So complex numbers are very useful in modelling waves and other periodic phenomena.
     
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  12. HawkI Registered Member

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    Oh yeah the Euler's Identity has imaginary numbers to. Interesting stuff there, I will have to consider what this means for the ideas and interpretations. So I've been looking over Schrodinger's equation and I can't seem to find the imaginary numbers, I'm looking at the one in my dictionary which is time-independent, it could be hiding in a function I suppose but I can't see it

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  13. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, it is the general, time-dependent, version that has i in it. But the solutions to even the time-independent version are complex functions.

    I've just found a short summary on the reason for using complex numbers to represent waves: http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/315/Waves/node88.html

    As I mentioned, electrical engineers use them too, for similar reasons: they are interested in things such as phase angle.....
     
  14. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    Unless you are in the top 10% of the physics reasearchers, I'm afraid the chances of that happening can only be represented by an imaginary percentage....

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  15. HawkI Registered Member

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    So I looked at Euler's Identity after not seeing it for a long time and never noticed before that, e to the power of in brackets (I times Pi) = -1, is the same as, I to the power of I = -1. How strange.

    Just wanted to add to the whole graviton thing, here's a quote from https://www.learner.org/courses/physics/unit/text.html?unit=2&secNum=9 about the hypothetical Gravitons for anyone who doesn't know

    " Second, like the gluon, the graviton itself carries (gravitational) charge, in the form of energy (mass). Thus, gravitons attract each other."


    EDIT: I just read the representation of waves via complex numbers page and this quote here "Complex numbers are often used to represent waves and wave functions" doesn't dissuade the use of 4th Spatial dimension to me, although the page is an interesting and manageable read
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
  16. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Er, surely not? If i ^i were = -1, then i ^i = e ^i π, so taking i-th roots of both sides you would be stating that e ^π =i, which can't be, seeing that π is real.

    How about i ^i = e ^ -π/2? But it is - rather counterintuitively - a real number.

    Details here: https://www.math.toronto.edu/mathnet/questionCorner/itothei.html

    Re yr 4th spatial dimension, it's up to you of course, seeing as we are in Pseudo, but I invite you to reflect on whether electrical engineers resort to 4th spatial dimensions when analysing an AC power system....
     
  17. HawkI Registered Member

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    Thanks' for letting me know the whereabouts of imaginary numbers in the time-independent Schrodinger equation are in the solution, no wander I couldn't find them in the equation.

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  18. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    There is a nice and simple discussion of the merits of complex numbers in representing waves here: https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/why-are-waves-represented-as-complex-numbers.718245/

    The guy makes the point that a complex number is a pair of numbers, which is what you need when you need to specify both amplitude and phase, as you do in the treatment of waves. (You may recall complex numbers are generally introduced as a pair of numbers - a vector in fact - and i comes in to define the 2 components as orthogonal to one another).
     
  19. HawkI Registered Member

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    Here's an elaboration on the loop variable of entanglement idea. if you draw a figure of eight (EDIT the symbol of the number 8) for example you will see that one end is going clock wise and the other end is drawn anti clock wise, also the angles connect. So atoms spin due to quantum numbers and entangled atoms spin in opposite directions.

    I just read the "why are waves represented as complex numbers" I see that complex numbers are useful for they do two things at once, I also see that sometimes they are not even needed if you want the sum to be longer, but as you say, this is the pseudo science forum, and these particles and waves could be illusions of our understanding of something from the 4th dimension.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
  20. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    You could try reading up some of the Hidden Variable theories - if you haven't done so already. I know very little about them, as none of then seem so far to work, but I have the vague idea that they may suggest QM is a projection into 3-space of some higher dimensional model that might be closer to reality.
     
  21. HawkI Registered Member

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    I thought of something yesterday that I just had to share, if the Higgs Boson particle is also quantum, then according to this interpretation, that would mean, it is always in the 4th dimension, given that it is always expanding.

    I'm sure we have heard this analogy before but I will say it anyway, A tight Rope performer can go forward and back, an ant can crawl around the surface in all directions.
     
  22. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Pity. You were sort of making sense until now.
     
  23. river Valued Senior Member

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    What got off the rails of " sense " . In your opinion ?
     

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