question for physicists-are all electrons the same?

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by globali, Sep 10, 2019.

  1. globali Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    292
    Recent evidence shows that clones of bacteria are comprised of cells harboring the same genetic material but every cell was found to actually be phenotypically and behaviorally different.

    Given that we tend to find individuality pretty much everywhere, it would not be surprising to me if we find for example that every electron is a bit different from others (i.e. no absolutely identical electrons exist).
    Lets hypothesize this is true, how would this affect the fundamental interpretation of quantum mechanics and its equations?
    Has this possibility been effetively ruled out?

    ps.was this a part of Einstein's objections to QM (false premises lead to false results)?
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,516
    It doesn't work like that in science. Remember Ockham's Razor? Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitate, or something like that. One should not introduce needless complications, basically. There is no evidence that suggests there may be more than one sort of electron, that is to say no problem with the theory that introducing this idea would solve. So nobody worries about ruling the idea in or out: it is unnecessary.

    And no it was not part of Einstein objection to QM. His objection was a purely aesthetic one. He was personally reluctant to give up the idea, in place since the time of Newton, that physics should be able, at least in principle, to determine the behaviour of nature exactly. Whereas QM says physics cannot do this, due to the probablistic nature of the theory and the Uncertainty Principle.
     
    globali likes this.
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,959
    The short answer is: yes, it's been ruled out.

    The long answer is ... longer.

    Best I can do is refer you to some answers to that very question and let you take from it what you will:

    "One good piece of evidence that all particles of a given type are identical is the exchange interaction. The exchange symmetry (that one can exchange any two electrons and leave the Hamiltonian unchanged) results in the Pauli exclusion principle for fermions. It also is responsible for all sorts of particle statistics effects (particles following the Fermi-Dirac or Bose-Einstein distributions) depending on whether the particles are fermions or bosons. If the particles were even slightly non-identical, it would have large, observable effects on things like the allowed energies of the Helium atom."
    https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/11826/are-all-electrons-identical

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identical_particles
     
    exchemist and globali like this.
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. globali Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    292
    thank you for your responses!!
     
  8. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,516
    Yes of course, I had not thought of particle exchange. Excellent point.
     
  9. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,959
    Fifteen years in isolation with a Tibetan Monk, studying Google-Fu finally pays off.
     
    exchemist likes this.

Share This Page