Questions about Covid-19?

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by KUMAR5, Apr 26, 2021.

  1. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    980
    I think, you have explained herd immunity developed naturally by pandemic and manipulated by vaccination very well in detail.
    Yes it does happen. Here,my concern still is, whether such immunity is acquired by developing B Cell immunological memory
    or by actual presence of antibodies? Some big path lab people told me " Generally, IgG antibodies remain present in the body for several months to years after an infection for long-term protection against the offending microorganism. Pre-formed, circulating IgG antibodies are ready to attack when re-exposed to the microorganism resulting in infection prevention or a quicker immune response with less severe symptoms."

    However I have a say in it:-
    that long term IgG antibodies persistence in the body is meant for a purpose to deal with some chronic or latent state
    of Covid Virus persisting in the body post acute infection treatment(may also be some traces of injected vaccine)?

    I am not sure presence of these antibodies for prolonged time in anticipation of any future offending microorganism is
    physiological or not because if any such offending microbe will infect in future Memory B Cells can instantly secrete desired
    antibodies to handle that infection.Then what is the need of unnecessary maintaining antibodies by body for 6 months or so unless some infection or its traces still exist post infection for long term against which consistent antibody meadiated immune response is necessary. It made me to think about possibility of its chronic or latent stage.
     
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  3. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    9,161
    If your country was invaded, you would send out the military in response. You fight back the invaders, push them back past the borders.
    Do you then immediately disband your own troops when the fighting stops? Or do you maintain a watch for the signs of further trouble, with troops already mobilised to react immediately? Then, after a few months of peace, gradually stand them down.

    According to your notion the troops would be fully disbanded immediately after cessation of conflict, but because they are still mobilised then there must be conflict, right?

    As to the process by which the body determines to continue producing antibodies, to maintain the levels of antibodies that it does post-infection (which for some viruses can be decades), there is on-going research, such as https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3291529/
    Needless to say, ongoing fight against infection would certainly give rise to continued antibody presence, but it would be a fallacy to assume that antibody presence is therefore due to an ongoing fight against the infection (fallacy of affirming the consequent).
     
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  5. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    6,834
    only thing i can find is 20 years old
    i suspect all the real ground breaking science will be under lock n key with a few billion dollars sitting behind it.

    flu vaccine & covid vaccine combined into this 1 area of science
    i doubt your going to get very deep into the real good stuff

    i am reading up & will join the discussion when i have

    NOTE
    you saying "OH no it wont" is not much of a discussion point
     
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  7. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    980
    Well explained thanks. Do you mean body defence mechanisms maintain double defence against anticipated offenfing microorganisms? One antibody mediated 2. Immunological memory. Whereas both can do the same work. May be in some pathogens, both of these are not developed so body defence may need to depend on either one. But it should not be same as other is also available. I feel, need should just be of one force i.e. either antibododies or immunological memory which can also secrete antibodies quickly on need.
     
  8. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    980
    Let us see, how things land ultimately. We need to accept here, body defence prefer double and similar protection for offending microorganisms and there is no harm in touching the genome of virus or of virus natural activities by medication or by vaccination esp mutation related.
     
    RainbowSingularity likes this.
  9. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,359
    Historically, a lot of disease comes via pandemic (i.e. a plague.) If you are infected during a plague and manage to fight off the pathogen, then it's very important to have enhanced immunity for months to years afterwards - since the plague will still be around.

    Thus evolution got involved.
    Not just double - literally dozens of defenses. From barriers (skin, mucus membranes) to instinctual responses (horror at seeing disfigured or dead people) to general responses (inflammation etc) your body fights disease in a lot of different ways.
     
  10. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    980
    Does it mean body defence will anticipate there can be multiple attacks by pathogen so it keep itself well prepared and well protected in advance ftom it inspite of fact intial atrack is cleared? Nothing remainant from ist attack or no chtonic or latent phase is responsible for such protection?

    Thus evolution got involved.

    Yes but every one out of these should be different not similar like one I pointed out.
     
  11. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,834
    vaccine or fetus invitro manipulation stem cell etc etc all should be ok

    but why give more food & money to those who wont share food and money with the existing population who have no food & money
    death is death
    morals mean nothing when they are being advertised by rich capitalists
    or backwards agrarian zealots determined to prevent everyone else from advancing
    etc etc
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2021
  12. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    980
    Nature and nature rules may also have some role in it. Survival of fittest, might is right, natural selection, energy conservation, nature balances itself etc etc apart from social environment.
    I am planning either to ask a question in thís thread or post a new topic:
    Whether above nature's rules apply limitee only to live beings or slso to non live things?
     
  13. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,834
    virus evolution is life
    same/same
    humans = hosts
    no need for magic concepts
    is simple basic mathematics

    the longer humans survive
    the more types of viruses they will encounter & the more evolution all existing viruses will under-go

    scientists have been saying shouting and screaming and posting papers on this since 1950's
    but usa and many religious people have ignored it and called it fake alarmist attention seeking for money greed

    now we see
    usa cost alone is around 5 trillion
    more than half a million dead

    making up a story to theorize it being beneficial for the species is purely subjective to those who survive

    so if existing people who caused the problem are not changed, then no point.
    simple
    stupid monkeys with guns and computers versus cave monkeys with cell phones touching their bums and then touching everyone's food
     
  14. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    980
    Yes, but now it is not business of monkeys to deal with Corona but is of those who hold gun and computers in hand.

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    I am not sure if this infection had discriminated with any one in human. Since last year India controlled
    aggressively but still you see position just in one month or so. All this thing is happening because we are not yet been
    able to fully understand it. Therefore every effort to better understand it should be respected and supported till is
    clear in science in absolute.
     
  15. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,834
    indian people did not want to go into lock downs
    that is a big thing

    also
    the economic system, being soo large and having soo much transient workers
    the shift of central workers to the rural areas when the lock down happened

    they probably thought it was a matter of waiting for a few weeks for it to vanish

    they then kept mixing
    then the protests and start up again
    brought it mack into the high density
    where it went un checked

    it did not surprise me of the massive 2nd wave infection

    if you search my posts you will see i clearly detail this concern
    im not going to search out my posts

    it was at that point where i suggested it would be good to deploy the military to manage rural indians by running all their supply networks and medical systems

    that didnt happen
    it was probably opposed by a majority

    it is no surprise to me or to any virologists and microbiologists who commented on it at the time

    "novel"
    yes

    more reason to err on the side of caution
    but money runs everything & the financial systems and supply networks are not set up to cater to run on any form of alternate ideology

    only china was able to make such drastic sudden changes with their economy to force its immediate reaction and core change long enough to combat the process and install systems like field hospitals etc

    is everyone's opinion correct and deserving of action ?
    THAT is a cultural discussion around internal culture

    i see no point in me getting into that
    it wont solve anything

    scientists opinions have not changed from what i have read.
    if you find any links to them changing their core opinions please post them
    it would be worth reading to comprehend what they are specifically referring to
    as often it is not always so immediately obvious to non scientists

    each culture has reacted and dealt with covid in their own way
    the results are quite clear to see
    science learns and adapts while power systems of people groups special interests and religions are very very slow to change

    covid changes faster
    covid is winning
    if they want to beat covid they must adapt faster than covid does
     
  16. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    980
     
  17. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    980
    Antually liberal democratic system prevailed in India so the govt could not be so hard like China. Moreover its culture. Fact is noone is on fault simply this time Covid act much faster beyond all exoectations, anticipations n calculation abd that too very quickly. So we can say it was just misunderstanding it or some kind of natural clamity. However we now learned a lot and will take necessary care for 3rd we've if there. Simply it was sudden and unexpected like Tsunami.
     
  18. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,834
    * any proxy political sociopolitical ideological civil war in India does not validate its self by asserting lack of ability to be decisive and adapt & deliver real results


    wrong

    it was not only expected
    it was predicted
    but indian culture demanded its own response
    indian culture responded the way indians chose to

    you think the protesting farmers made any difference with their protest ?
    but they freely chose to protest
    they chose to exercise indian cultural values and protested
    even though they have killed thousands of people from starvation & spreading covid

    but you Kumar5
    are playing the politico blame game
    trying to now say that no body had control
    no body knew anything
    science is wrong and cant help
    and everyone should be now treated equally as a victim

    you see i can see through your pretense in this thread

    but now you have outed yourself for others to read

    kissing the tyrants ass
    virtue signalling to power systems of class
    etc etc

    and so your looking to science to find some reason why science cant be trusted
    but you want everyone else
    including science
    to do all that self invalidating work for you
    so you can sit back and play the power broker who can be not accountable

    playing both sides of an american styled political power bi-partisan ideology between peoples systems and private business interest

    which is the every thing which drove the primary spread of covid in india(& the USA & the UK)
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2021
  19. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    980
    No, usually people base the result. Same people, same culture, same leader, same disease, same country, perfomed best in ist wave, therefore world had appreciated and asked for help. This wave, being sudden burst backed by different strain, world is finding faults and is sympathetic so offering help. What changed? Simpky disease which is winning instead of improvements. Like in sports, when a team win everyone appreciate players but when loose every one blame same players. It is mentality of common men.

    Anyway, avoid detailing the topic subject and contribute to OP if can. We can discuss politics in other forum if needed. Subject of my topic is Questions.... So obiously I have full justification to ask questions.
     
  20. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    980
    Anyway, coming to Op, Long term existing IgG antibodies in body purpose should be to mediate secondary immune response related to Adaptive or humrol immune system. These are secreted from B Cells lymphocytes. What can be such secondary responses in Covid? I think:-
    1. Immune response against remainant virus/infection.

    2. Long term Immune response against some chronic or latent or dormat virus if there(though could yet be estimated).

    3. Long term protention from multiple infection if offending virus reinfect again along with immunological memory based immune response.
    It may also be needed to pass immune protection from mother to child in infant age.

    Now we can evaluate above.

    Now we can try to
     
  21. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,834
    really ?
    your swinging for the out field but your holding a wooden spoon & facing the wrong way
    & you want me to take you seriously
    now your spinning hard on the media spin
    usa did mostly what india did
    but usa locked down during the 2nd wave because more usa people believed in science and more importantly they believed in their elected officials making lock downs
    you can see the rampant spread in red states where they didn't lock down

    effectively the UK, the USA & india all treated covid the same to begin with
    putting money before people
    but UK had experience & believe in science
    USA has obeyed lock downs
    but idia has too many people and most do not trust their own political figures and the system is terribly poor
    the people are highly superstitious
    and as we could see all the protesting farmers were happy to "CLAIM" on TV camera they were prepared to commit suicide to make their point while spreading covid and starving their own people

    all thos people who donated millions to the rich farmers who have spread covid & are creating a food shortage...
    should be ashamed of themselves & should be donating twice as much to aid programs delivering food & medicine to india

    its that simple

    but your playing political power games

    and here you kick off again with your hard core propaganda
    spinning what you know of science to try and undermine vaccine trust
    i can see right through you
    and here you round out your point to try and say its all fairly pointless because it must be passed down by breeding

    you are using your questions to manipulate the subject away from science
    and to exploit unknowns to deliver a false read for those attempting to keep up with advanced science

    to do what ?
    so they can pretend to their followers that they know science, and science cant really help
    so its no ones fault
    and may as well ignore everything except keep giving them all the power ?

    prove me wrong
    i hope you do
    which infection ?
    which virus ?
    now your saying other viruses
    and have changed the subject
    to subtly move it into an unknown
     
  22. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,834
    and what i suspect
    is your drive behind the subject
    is to get hold of some of that AID money or the power of directing and accessing it
    your focus on the aid shines through
    i can see right though you

    soo few words but soo telling

    it cant b avoided but the world must now give money
    money to who ?
    to people like you ?
    people like the protesting farmers ?

    if you want to talk hard science the i suggest you start
    instead of using old tired manipulation religious psychology techniques to swing and move the subject off its supposed purpose
    to illicit a false value of science and then pretend you had that talk with people who claim to know
    playing your double end game

    no doubt you will be linking this thread to some site where you ask for donations or votes for you to become a donor recipient or power broker

    i hope im wrong
    but you seem to be doing that

    logical thought process
    scientific method
    ...
    questions about covid money ?
    covid power ?
    political power during covid ?
    alt-right power to make money from covid ?
    covid superstition ?
    covid global recession ?

    questions about covid

    covid preparedness of countrys ? (oh wait you wiped that on off the board already)

    only about YOUR questions
    so you control the narrative & direction and assumed authority of fact ?
    please prove me wrong
    what is the primary 1st response ?
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2021
  23. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    980
    Simply you speculate and suspect too much by looking at media reporrs and by makíng base of ball present on which side. Anyway now onwards I shall limit myself to topic subject and same only I shall interact. I do not want to listen bad about my country or about my leader as I am still happy with it. In nett our leader is still on much positive side and I make base on nett basis not just on one or two odd or even basis. Hence pls limit your self to OP and contribute if can. Othereise, if my posts look odd to you, you can simply avoid and let others to contribute. But do not derail to topic. Sorry.
     

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