Radical Islam : What is the fundamental motivation?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Vexen, Jan 8, 2015.

  1. Bells Staff Member

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    24,245
    My god.. The level of stupid in this thread just increased..

    I don't even know where to begin.

    Okay, I'll begin with the water ape:

    No.

    Just.. No.

    Radical Islam is fueled by the same need, desire and demand of all radicals in all religions.

    Religious superiority. The idiots think they are going to get to heaven faster if they kill, maim, rape, enslave in the name of their deity. When someone in ISIS drags an Imam to the street and shoots him in the head for not converting to his version of his religion, or when they get their little kids to hold up decomposing and decapitated heads for a photo, it's not because they aren't getting any. It is because they are murderous twats who think that by killing others, they will get to heaven faster. They believe that forcing their religious doctrines onto others is going to get them to heaven faster.

    It is not because they, to put it bluntly, need to blow a load.

    See, this is why you are coming across like Elliot Rodger.

    "Go homo"!?

    How does one "go homo"?

    Do you mean be a homosexual? You do realise that this is pretty much everywhere, even in the US where ring wing Christians are basically waging war on the LGBT community and don't even get me started on Russia or the Vatican, or countries like Italy and half of the countries in Africa.

    Why are you so obsessed with sex?

    What? You think that ISIS is telling them that because they aren't getting any, they can come and shoot big guns at people instead?

    They aren't becoming radical because they aren't getting any.

    You know, you should have quit when you were behind. Because you have left stupid behind and now delving into the land of moron.

    Yeah, you really should have stopped while you were well behind.

    Did you suffer a head injury as a child?

    By the time I finish typing this post, you will receive a warning for your offensive comment that is actually in breach of this site's rules.

    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    What he posted is actually correct. The majority of terrorist attacks in the US have been for the far right Christian quarter. There was another attack a few days ago, a bomb was left outside an NAACP office. Thankfully the gas bottle that was placed next to the explosive did not ignite, just the explosive itself went off. If the gas bottle had exploded, it would have been much much worse.

    Radicals come in all religions and colours. But their pattern of behaviour, their hatred is the same.

    Oil.

    That is how they are getting their money. And donations from wealthy benefactors and supporters. The Saudis are very rich.

    The text is there. Sane people just ignore it or do not abide by those particular rules.

    I have family who are right wing Christian radicals. And they are getting deep into the Old Testament. And when I say deep, I mean they are spouting some crazy and scary stuff. While I am comforted that my cousin's husband is not able to access firearms easily, he is violent enough to pose a risk to society when it gets to that point. I say when, because frankly, it is only a matter of time. The last time I saw him was last month, when he dropped hints about how I should repent for my children's sake to avoid the stoning that is likely to happen to me because I am a "whore", a "blasphemer" and a "non-believer" (the evil trinity!

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    ). Made for grrrrreeeeeaaaaat Christmas dinner conversation, let me tell you. And while I love my cousin dearly, her husband is no longer welcome in my house.

    Radical Islam also apply those rules and laws to their day to day living. While moderate Muslims do not interpret or apply those texts and think it is absurd, not all do. Some demand that it be applied literally and do. So we have fundamentalists who pose a danger to all around them. They hate the West because they believe the West is trying to destroy them. They wish to establish their own state, where they can spread the jihad to all Muslims and non-Muslims through threats of convert or die. And thousands have.

    A book is just words on paper. It is the person reading it that matters.
     
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  3. CEngelbrecht Registered Senior Member

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    I'm saying all the stuff about 'going to heaven' is bollocks and lousy excuses. Otherwise ISIL people would hardly rape the local girls during their rampage, would they? I'm saying it's a load of hypocrisy to scream and yell about this and that comma in some convenient text, and then forget it all, as soon as the mad can get away with it.

    I have been reading some stuff by Freud and Jung lately. That is the reason.

    No, no. You misunderstand me. What I'm trying to understand is the underlying subconscious cause behind such madness. What's going on in Freud's id, if you will. The core animal instincts panning out from our reptilian brain at all times, whether we want it or not. And in that, yes, I do see sex as a very likely culprit. Because that is the drive force behind a buck load of what both men and women do. It's standard Freudianism. You can't take the ape out of the human being, and the survival need to procreate is one of the strongest biological instincts we have. Whether we acknowledge it or not.

    As if ISIL people or school shooters or bloodthirsty dictators or corrupt parlamentarians know what the hell their subconscious is ordering them to do in the name of sex. I have been in the Middle East, I have seen first hand how desperate most of the boys are down there, because of the polygynous tradition. 'Cause they don't share the illusion of monogamous cultures, where every boy thinks they have a fair chance to find a mate. It consumes them every day of their lives, the fight for securing at least one wife, and scores of them will fail, for purely mathematical reasons. The kids themselves say, that it's a grusome competition, 'cause some fat rich guy will just hawk the fertile girls. And I summize, that this creates a viscious counter response and a constant tension all through society, that inevitably will explode. And this tradition of some social darwinism also channels through to Europe's Muslim immigrants, they say the same thing.

    But I'm also saying, that it's not just the Muslim world suffering from this. Human mating behavior inherits a paradox, that is its own perpetual powder keg in any society, it would seem. It seems exacerbated in a polygynous culture, but the monogamous West sure ain't safe from it, either.

    Now that's my perspective. If you'd only reject it out of being culturally prudish yourself, as if sex is not "supposed" to be part of the human equation, then it's gonna be intensely difficult to have any rational discussion about this problem.
     
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  5. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    Have you forgot 911? Have you also forgot the title of the thread? Just say it, you hate Christians... or/and continue to pick selective posts apart to create a collection of bias meanderings.

    Oh finally, have you got a link to this Christian terrorist story?
     
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  7. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    Oh right, so these guys have shares or even own oil refinaries? Or just sell unrefined oil? Interesting... surely they should be easy to catch?

    Exactly. So this book does actually tell believers to kill infidels... amazing how it is the basis for the largest religion in the World. My God we're screwed so much.

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/03/080331-AP-islam-largest.html
     
  8. CEngelbrecht Registered Senior Member

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    360
    Goes to show focus, I'd say. If somebody from "the others"' tribe goes nuts, you'd panic and go, "Heathens!" But if somebody from your own tribe goes nuts, you'd just go, "What a wanker." Even if in sheer numbers, members of your own tribe goes nuts more often. It's easier to deal with madness coming from within (that's just par for the course, innit?), but if it comes from without, the response is our instinctive fear of predators from eons past. And because we have largely eliminated the threat of predators, we have to be each other's predators now. Westeners are scared of Easterners, and Easterners are scared of Westeners. Aparently, we need to be terrified.
     
  9. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    5,106
    I think all religion has to go eventually mate.
     
  10. CEngelbrecht Registered Senior Member

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    Story is, ISIL simply sells oil from oil fields they conquer, thereby funding their warfare. And the world simply continues to buy it, because we have to have it. We are all junkies and slaves to that blasted gooey stuff, that disbalances our atmosphere and drowns the Seychelles.

    That's an odd definition of the religions in that article, I think. Islam has subcategories too, same as Christianity. Christians would still be more in numbers, Orthodox, Catholics, Protestants, etc. at 2.4 billion combined; while Muslims, Sunni, Shia, etc. is at 1.8 billion combined.

    Human fantasy tells people to kill people. Underlying, subconscious factors, e.g. over population, is what drives people to want, more so need, to kill people. Similar to how too many hamsters in too small a cage makes the little cute rodents attack and bite each other to death. Human religions in and of themselves has nothing to do with what people do, or though they are the most widely and most readily used excuses. Nobody understands the religions, anyway. 'Cause that's exactly the point of religion. We're not biologically geared to deal with how the universe actually is: Totally, utterly indifferent with us. And most people will refuse to accept that grusome reality. Religion is its own survival instinct in this semi-intelligent ape. It's Santa Claus for adults.
     
  11. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    22,087
    Memes and group theory: but this is not news. All the presumed social proximal 'causes' do not justify the effect.
     
  12. CEngelbrecht Registered Senior Member

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    But what will replace it? That experiment has been done plenty of times already. During the French revolution, there was the attempted Cult of Reason. It didn't exactly take, did it? Communism declares itself an atheist society, by default. Nazi Germany technically was atheist. Even when you do eliminate "religion", you just end up with people cults like e.g. North Korea instead, and in those the psychology is no different from what we call religion. You can't force people to let go of religion. Even if you don't call it religion, it will still creep in. Because then the "philosophy of no religion" just becomes the new religion. You can't change human nature.

    So we might as well stick to the nonsense we already have and keep these random tribal rituals alive, even though we know full well that it's all children's stories. Religion is a reassuring fable, we aparently need. All we need is asking people not to shame themselves while living out the perpetual absurdities of the pointless human existence.
     
  13. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    5,106
    My point and statement is still true.

    I don't buy this "human fantasy" bullshit tbh. You either are a murderer or you ain't, and the vast majority of "human beings" are not killers. I think your reasoning is flawed on this issue.
     
  14. Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    4,197
    Hardly. I'm so sorry, I should have noted that Most of the terrorist activity in the U.S. in recent years [post 9/11] has not come from Muslims, but from radical Christianists, white supremacists and far-right militia groups.

    There. Fixed. All better now Dave?

    As to the rest, you do realize your reaction is only making my point for me, right?

    Amazing how quickly a normally soft spoken and semi-rational religionist can be provoked simply by pointing out that their particular faith is also capable of radicalization. Instant outrage followed by denial...
    Couldn't have asked for more from you Dave. Priceless:
    I mean, don't let little things like facts cloud your judgement. Instead, just be outraged and deny those facts - it's easier that way, right little bloodworm? GeoffP had you pegged from the start but backpedaled. I won't - "Just say it, you hate Christians Muslims..."
     
  15. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    5,106
    Religion might be dodgy but peoples Faith in God is not. The vast majority of Muslims are peaceful, same goes for the other religions. So, I still think religion eventually needs to go once we've evolved to the point where we no longer need a hand to hold to know God.
     
  16. CEngelbrecht Registered Senior Member

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    360
    I'm gonna have to say, that that's fantasy. You demand too much of human nature.

    The colossal paradox is, that what you're talking about is actually represented in the Book of Genesis. In that fable about eating off that damn fruit tree:

    If one couples that a bit with the contemporary scientific consensus and psychology, this can actually be seen as a fable about Homo sapiens becoming fully intelligent, perhaps some 150.000 years ago (science actually talks about "the mitochondrial Adam and Eve", using that literary reference). Somebody was really bright 5000 years ago, when that fable was thought up by some bipedal ape in the Middle East. When the text say "naked", it can be interpreted as humans gaining self awareness ... and ever since then our lives have been crap. Since then we haven't been in the blissful paradise of ignorance. The paradox is that intelligence allows us to grasp our place in Creation ... and that's seriously depressing, 'cause Creation don't care about us. We are just another random product of its physical processes, another roll of the dice. The creational force in the Cosmos is not some being similar to ourselves, with a behavior similar to our own. In that context, humans created God in our own image, not vice versa. Nobody watches over us in the vastness of space. We are alone, only responsible towards each other. At the very least, that's by far the only thing making any (God) damned sense at the end of the thinking process. And that's so much scarier than any random predator from our biological reality. Once we had the intelligence to grasp that, we panicked and created religious stories that tells us the exact opposite of that horrible reality, as a survival instinct, as an odd side effect to intelligence, as a beautiful lie.

    And yet, even if somebody actually thought that up already millenia ago, even if that fable is at the very core of all the Abrahamic faiths, "religion" is still with us. The human species as we know it is at least two million years old. What makes you think, that our biological nature will change in any foreseeable future to grow beyond needing religion (whether we call it "religion" or not), when it's our very biological nature that mothers the need for these reassuring fables?

    Religion will not go away untill the extinction of the human race. Which might happen tomorrow, if Putin sits on the button.
     
  17. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    5,106
    There are signs that what I'm predicting is starting to come true:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritual_but_not_religious
     
  18. Bells Staff Member

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    24,245
    Why?

    Why not?

    Have you ever read history books? Or read about war in general? Rape is a tool of war. For ISIS, for example, those women become property. Slaves.

    But they do get away with it. And they do believe it will get them to heaven. Same as all religious wars. Do you think that when Christians rampaged through Europe during the Crusades that they were doing it for sex? No. It wasn't sex.

    Riigghhttt..

    Control, power, dominance. It isn't because they want sex.

    Or perhaps you were projecting yourself and your feelings onto others.

    And the obsession continues..

    Prudish? Far from it.

    However I do believe that just making it about sex ignores the obvious other causes and reactions. As I noted above, perhaps you should not foist your own personal feelings about sex onto others.

    __________________________________________________________________


    Should I have?

    Well it is at the top of the page..

    Oh I'm sorry.. Have I interrupted your Muslim bashing with a dose of reality?

    To be fair, I hate all religions equally. Not just Christians.

    9/11 was one event. Yes, thousands died. But it was one terrorist attack. The reality is that the US has suffered more terrorist attacks from white Christian fundamentalists. And as I noted before, there was another terrorist attack a few days ago.

    Why are you so gleeful about discussing Islamic terrorism but you have a fit at the thought that Christians can also be terrorists and that their attacks on US soil outnumber all other ones from other sources?

    It's in the papers.

    With its history of being attacked by white Christian racist fundamentalists, this is hardly surprising. This sort of thing happens to them quite a bit.

    The oil they sell is what they have stolen.

    So do other religious texts and even Christian religious history. Same goes for Judaism.

    What's your point?
     
  19. CEngelbrecht Registered Senior Member

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    It's still old wine on new bottles, I have to say. Nothing is gonna change. Some scumbag is still gonna pop up and abuse the intention, subconsciously to gain easier access to the honeys. You can't remove the ape from the human.
     
  20. CEngelbrecht Registered Senior Member

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    [sigh ...] Control, power and dominance is exactly what ovulating females respond to, and ovulating females is exactly what men are responding to. Exactly like male dogs around a bitch in heat, it is key to human mating behavior. That is not exactly news. And that is exactly why males desperately claw after that control, power and dominance, what ever the cost. Sex is indeed all men want, even if they're not consciously aware of what their subconscious dictates them to do, for whatever biological reasons.

    Not exactly a good looking brother, is he? If he attracts the ladies just from wandering the corridors of power ...

    ISIL fighters, if they are supposed to be "true" Muslims (which is not that bloody different from Christians or any other Jew), then rape can't be used as a weapon. Some random nonsense about, "Yeah, but these girls are not the right kind of Muslim, therefore it's okay that I shag them" only shows their gross level of hypocrisy. Tell me they too are not slaves to their subconscious need for sex and willingness to dig up random, absurd religious excuses for doing what they had done anyway. We are not logical creatures, we are biological creatures.

    There's nothing "just" about sex. It's the mechanism that governs human procreation, and therefore one of the strongest survival instincts in the human race, either gender. The expression "I'd kill for sex" is not all that trivial.

    And I got nothing to do with any of this. I'm not dictating human nature.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2015
    davewhite04 likes this.
  21. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    The fact that this guy has read about human psychology from the two giants of the field makes this guys viewpoint more credible. You obviously have too strong a bias to add anything to this thread, as you have demonstrated.

    No, you seemingly already have.

    Indeed.

    Riigghhttt..

    Why the interest in this "religion" forum? Are you here just to upset people? I'll make sure I never meet you.

    What attack? You mean the one that didn't harm anyone? Source for your nonsense would be good.

    Source please. But would also like to point out to others, as I couldn't care less about you, that religion needs to go.

    Who's buying oil off these terrorists?

    A source to your answer would be good also.

    You should read a bit of Jung.
     
  22. CEngelbrecht Registered Senior Member

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    People who drive automobiles. It's a similar discussion as people buying blood diamonds.
     
  23. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    5,106
    So... are them criminals also? I'd say yes. But us knowing that we potentially could be buying this fuel, as fuel prices in the UK are very low at the minute, it really would be an inconvenient truth.
     

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