Radius of Proton and Neutron equal or not?

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by DarkDAVE, Apr 12, 2002.

  1. If a neutron is made out of three quarks, and a proton is made out of three quarks, then why does a neutron decay into a proton, electron, and antineutrino???

    Does that mean that an electron is made of quarks, as well?? If the electron is made of fragments of quarks, then do quarks, as independent particles, really exist???

    Or is the quark theory another failed attempt to explain the structure of nucleons???

    All feedback is appreciated.

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  3. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    If a neutron is made out of three quarks, and a proton is made out of three quarks, then why does a neutron decay into a proton, electron, and antineutrino???

    Essentially, a down quark is transformed into an up quark. But the Standard Model however, does not answer the question, why.
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  5. DarkDAVE Registered Member

    Q i think youre missing the point of the question, i understand what his getting at...

    The neutron according to the experts here are made out of 3 QUARKS right??? Is that all? Just 3 Quarks? Is there not an electron or neutrino orbiting with the 3 Quarks too? or inside of the quarks.

    Where did the electron and neutrino come from? You said they are made up of 3 quarks... and nothing more.

    If i say i have 3 marbles in a bag and pull out a rabbit plus the 3 marbles... where did the rabit come from?

    Good question, i like to know the answer my self... i suspect youre going to tell us that they are converted into matter from energy of the Quarks orbit or something??

    See, ... I thought that a neutron was just another proton with an electron near it... but now u tell us that it's made up of diferent kinds of quarks than the protons! So does that mean that the electron in close orbit (meson) flips the switch on the quark and turn it into a down or up quark??

    Sincerely, David
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2002
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  7. thed IT Gopher Registered Senior Member

    darkDAVE and others

    Please read This description of the Standard Model.

    A neutron is made of 3 quarks and 3 gluons. The gluons carry the strong nuclear or colour force. As darkDAVE correctly intuits the mass of the glouns is (crudely) converted to energy and thence to an electron, proton and anti-neutrino. It is more correct to think in terms of quantum properties changing and being conserved.

    No doubt some one, Adam probably, will ask the reasonable question, why? No one currently can explain why the Standard model behaves as it does. It is purely a description of what happens and not an explanation. That is in the realms of supersymmetry and grand unification, as yet unknown.

    As James R points out, the neutron is made of particles obeying rules of QM and has no definite radius. Same as the electron.
  8. DarkDAVE Registered Member

    Don't you mean the gluon energy force is converted into matter in the form of an electron and an anti-neutrino?

    The proton was always there was it not? I thought the Proton + the Gluon = Neutron?

    1) btw, why anti-neutrino? why not Neutrino?

    2) Whats the diference between the two?

    3) How can there be an anti-particle for a neutrino that has no charge?


    4) How much mass does a neutrino have?

    5) How big is it's radius? (im assuming it's smaller than plank's length?)

    Im under the impression that the mass of this particle is undiscovered?

    6) Does a Neutrino exist in a cloud of probabilities like an electron?

    7) Exactly how fast in terms of c does a neutrino particle travel?

    Thanks for the link u gave us... it's always nice to add another useful reference to my favorites folder...

    I'll try and search thru it but atm, a lot of the analogies are beyond me.

    Last edited: Apr 14, 2002
  9. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    The process by which a neutron decays into a proton, an electron and an antineutrino is called <i>beta decay</i>. It is due to the weak nuclear force.

    In the interaction, a down quark is converted into an up quark. In order to conserve energy, momentum and various other quantum numbers an electron and antineutrino are produced in the process. It is an antineutrino rather than a neutrino because a quantity called the lepton number is conserved in the interaction.

    All particles have antiparticles, though some particles are their own antiparticles. Antiparticles of charged particles always have the opposite charge.

    Nobody knows how much mass a neutrino has, although there are upper limits on how much mass they can have, established by experiment. Originally, they were thought to have zero mass, but the neutrino oscillation experiments seem to indicate otherwise.
  10. John Devers (AVATAR) Registered Senior Member

    Hi Dave, Sorry but by your post I am still getting the impression that your idea of a singularity and a point are too close together.

    A point is a point an epsilon if you wish.

    A singularity is an edge it has no points.

    The neutrino has been "weighed"

    THE lightest known particle in the Universe has been weighed for the first time.

    Scientists from Cambridge University have calculated that the neutrino, the tiniest and most elusive of the sub-atomic particles that make up matter, weighs less than a billionth of the mass of a hydrogen atom, the smallest and simplest of all the elements. That puts the maximum mass of the neutrino at 1.8 x 10-36kg, or 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000018kg.

    <A HREF="http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2-262297,00.html" target=new><FONT COLOR=ff0098 size=+1> from the times</FONT></A>
  11. Adam §Þ@ç€ MØnk€¥ Registered Senior Member

    Dumb-arse. I could have told them that. All they had to do is ask. Would have saved them heaps of money and effort.

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  12. DarkDAVE Registered Member


    Thanks for that! MR John Devers. WOW!! Those figures are sooo beatiful

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    I'll have to enter it into my research spreadsheet

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    John, doesnt the fact that singularities have only one dimension qualify it as a point?

    And also... James said that the neutron decays into a proton and releases a single electron and anti-neutrino... but wouldnt this process have to be re-curing within the neucleus of a single stable atom?

    I thought that protons and neutrons CONTINUALY swap into each other's role?


    1) Messon leaves neutron and goes to proton and proton turns to neutron

    2) Neutron is now mesonless... and becomes a proton.

    3) Go back to step 1.

    Wouldnt the atom continualy loose neutrinos this way? Or are they neutrinos part of mesons?

    Im getting the impression here that

    Mesons consist of:

    1) An Electron
    2) An anti-neutrino

    Is this correct?

    What makes an anti-neutrino diferent from a neutrino? Do anti-neutrinos have negative mass or something?

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    Or do they spin diferently to ordinary neutrinos?

    Last edited: Apr 15, 2002

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