Rant: I hate most online gardening information

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by domesticated om, Dec 15, 2020.

  1. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,118
    Or you could.. You know..

    Just plant the things.

    Dude, you're growing French tarragon because you like eating it.

    If you were setting a commercial setup, then I might understand this desire or need to go into such ridiculous amounts of detail. But you are literally putting some tarragon in a container.

    https://www.environment.sa.gov.au/goodliving/posts/2019/05/guide-to-composting

    It's really not that hard.

    Nor does it have to be that complicated.

    Or you could, you know, just plant your French tarragon and see if it grows.

    Here is a super simple guide: https://www.finegardening.com/article/french-tarragon

    Good luck!
     
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  3. domesticated om Stickler for details Valued Senior Member

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    By the way, I’ve been letting it slip by, but thought I would mention that in many cases in this discussion, I’m trying to highlight the shortcomings of gardening content as opposed to solving the individual concrete examples given. My wife tells me it’s mainly my fault since I sometimes don’t frame or preface things in a clear enough way, but I’m using them more as a vehicle to demonstrate the more abstract point.
    Additionally, a common behavior I’ve noticed in discussions are when answers are highly biased by a persons own perceived limitations. Someone may perceive a thing to be too expensive, too complicated, too tedious, or something that can only be done by “a professional”. A lot of times, they are actually selling themselves short, stymying the progress of ideas, or just covering up for the fact they don’t really know the answer. <~~ abstract

    Concrete example —>
    How do I travel upwind in a sailboat?
    Sailboats are too expensive. You should stick to canoes.
    Do you even know how to do it at all?
    I dunno - never tried. I leave it to the experts...

    How do I design a transmission for a car?
    Transmissions are really complicated. You’re better off getting one that’s already made. Have you ever designed a transmission? No, but.....,

    See what I mean? You kind of wonder why someone whose never tried something themselves even contributes to the discussion in the first place? They aren’t really contributing to the body of facts or fostering the progression of the idea. Simply imposing their own limitations.
    Why can’t something be complicated? Heck - I love sinking my teeth into complex things. Why can’t something be expensive? I’d rather have the facts of something in hand and make a determination of it being within my means than separated from a fact by another person’s meekness.
     
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  5. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    16,706
    No. Get it right:

    Q: Why are these Youtube videos so bad at teaching me how to design transmissions - which is as much art as science - in one shot, from start to finish, without any trail-and-error or even practice on my part?

    A: Transmission design is really complicated. Maybe your expectations of learning a new discipline need adjusting.


    Do you think an expert would have a different answer?
    "No no no. Transmission design is actually easy. Watch this 10-minute Youtube video and now you're set up for a career with a 6-digit salary"
     
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  7. Bells Staff Member

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    24,118
    Okay.. How can I put this nicely..

    You refuse to learn how to do something - and you are complaining that online videos on how to do it and blogsites are not informative enough - because all of these sites expect you to actually go out and learn how to do it yourself after giving you the basics of their own experiences in growing that plant.

    Instead of applying the knowledge you have learned then adjusting that knowledge and applying any experience you gain to figuring out how you can grow that plant in your garden, you instead complain that these other people, who in their own trial and error and gaining experience and knowledge in the process of growing their plants, are not giving you the minute details of how this plant should be grown in your garden, to the point where you want exact measurements for growth medium, watering, fertiliser (which French tarragon does not need btw), lighting, etc.

    As I noted above, you don't want to grow French tarragon. You want it grown for you. You want all the hard work done for you.

    What most people do with plants.. They learn what this plant likes and does not like - the basics and then they try and figure out how or where they can grow it best and from there, they learn how to grow it in their own environment, through mostly trial and error. You aren't interested in doing that. You want it all figured out for you (which is impossible, by the way, as your current environment will not be matched by anyone else). If you follow the advice given on youtube or anywhere else, you plant will most likely die, because you are applying the knowledge and experience gained by others in a completely different environment and growing condition to yours, which will not be anywhere near the same. Instead of figuring it out for yourself, you want others to figure it out for you.

    I'd suggest you hire a gardener. Because you are not willing to put in any of the hard work yourself or learning how to do it yourself.

    To wit, your approach simply comes down to you being lazy.
     
  8. domesticated om Stickler for details Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,277
    I’m actually reading their information in an attempt to learn, and pointing out the shortcomings in the way they are delivering information. I’m actively going through the coursework only to discover the author that wrote it is dyslexic.
    Generalizing the idea of missing details as “minute” is hyperbole. I’m ranting about the inclusion of simple things like objective quantities, measurements, and percentages.
    Glossing over the details of growing any particular species of plant sets the reader up for failure. French tarragon (for example) does not grow at all naturally in zone 8A and is fussy about things like heat, humidity, soil, and seasonal cycles. Footnote: let me know if planting zones is an unfamiliar thing (may be U.S. nomenclature).
    Saying that I want it done for me is also hyperbole - another personal projection of what constitutes “difficulty” in delivering information. A student can be given a strong foundation of information/learning environment or a weak one.

    Continuing on rant though..... remember what I said about “I see your point” then reading the next article and wanting to bare knuckle box someone? Let’s take on another concrete example:
    So you have indeterminate and determinate tomato varieties. They are defined by their cycles of life and death - one having a defined lifespan and the other being indeterminate. The next question is obviously “well - does an indeterminate tomato plant live forever”?

    Internet learning environment: “an indeterminate tomato only lives until the first frost”

    Here is someone answering it from their own personal life experience. Doesn’t really answer the question though, but close enough for horseshoes. Bubba’s provincial almanac says the lifespan of a dog is defined by the moment it gets hit by a car.

    Part of me wants to assume that in the years since the invention of air conditioning, greenhouses, or at the very least - lived a single year closer to the equator, someone will have actually discovered and documented the answer to this question. It’s kind of dumb to place the student’s journey of discovery here, and they reinvent the wheel.

    What could be the internet learning environment:
    Indeterminate tomatoes have a life span between X and Y based on their genetics. They are highly intolerant to frost and only produce tomatoes n of those years.

    In which case the student’s starting point deep dives into “what defines genetics?” - and they begin their journey into the various landraces and cultivars. It’s not even any extra work really.... just a couple of extra sentences get the student up to speed at the start.
    This is where you and I are different at this moment. I’m noticing the flaws, and you’re highly invested in a “life experiences” methodology. You don’t even acknowledge that there’s any more experimentation to be done given a stronger base starting point. The teacher giving the student the recipe to pancake batter along with measurements for the ingredients has “done all the work for them”. I’m saying the student given crap instructions is still fiddling around with the batter trying to get the pancake recipe right while the student given the good instructions is already experimenting with adding blueberries to the batter.
     

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