Record cold and snow in Brazil

Discussion in 'Earth Science' started by sculptor, Aug 1, 2021.

  1. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Darned interesting.

    Your thoughts?

    Your perspective?
     
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  3. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    We also have floods in China and in Europe, and unprecedented heatwaves and fires in Siberia and N America. It seems to be what we have been told to expect, viz. increased frequency of extreme weather events.
     
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  5. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    Just given Brazil's latitude and the absence of any really high mountain ranges, I'd guess that snow in Brazil is very unusual.
     
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  7. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    yes, very
    from 5°16'20" N to 33°44'32" S latitude

    This cold and snow was a record
    some of which, at Sao Paulo and Minas Gerais, was within the tropics.

    "curiouser and curiouser"
     
  8. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    Not really. I've seen the elected representatives of this kind of bs bring snowballs into the House chambers of the federal government - the actual governing body of the United States of America - and present them as some kind of significant evidence of something or other they didn't bother to explain.

    Yet another example of the kind of events long predicted by those climate change "alarmists", and yet another blank thread lacking argument, evidence, or even (this time) citation. On a science forum.

    We see why these folks found people like Schmelzer "informative" - in the real world that kind of pretension to obliviousness stopped being "curiouser" a couple of decades ago.
    It snows "yearly" in southern Brazil. The higher elevations get over 2000 meters, and the winter temperatures go below freezing regularly.

    As far as being "unusual": So were tropical storms - until a few years ago. Get used to it. This is what the word "change" means in the term "climate change". https://www.accuweather.com/en/hurricane/subtropical-storm-potira-near-brazil/935912
     
  9. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    It's due to global warming.
     
  10. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    Why?
    I find the weather fascinating. I wanted to go into meteorology, but chose engineering for financial reasons. Wish I had done meteorology...
    I'll bet there were an interesting set of circumstances that came together to cause this cold snap.
     
  11. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Well now

    That does seem to be the current mantra of the climatologically illiterate.

    ...............................
    Perhaps a little reading about solar influence on jet stream blocking would be helpful?
     
  12. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    You think climatologist are climatologically illiterate? That is beyond weird.
     
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  13. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    perspective matters

    sometimes, what one does know inhibits having a good perspective on what one does not know

    Research shows blocking persistence increases when solar activity is low — this causes weather patterns to become locked in place at high and intermediate latitudes for prolonged periods of time.

    and....................................................................................................................................................
     
  14. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    Feel free to actually post helpful stuff any time - if over the years you have forgotten how, review the posts of those who have not.
    The OP is more typical of that crowd. *
    Blocking persistence increases even more when the temperature difference between high and low latitudes is reduced over the entire planet - a finding of that same research, years ago. Global warming is doing that.

    Not that it matters, in the absence of an argument tying blocking persistence to this snowfall in Brazil as the cause.

    When composing or linking or citing such an argument, remember to deal with the obvious factors one notices when taking a larger scale and longer term perspective - such as that solar minima are regular and fairly frequent occurrences, and this snowfall in Brazil is apparently unique in a meteorological record spanning several of them.
    Vice versa is more common by far. The benefits of ignorance are overrated - especially by the willfully ignorant.

    In this case willful ignorance has not abetted perspective - quite the opposite. You have been unable, for example, to incorporate the perspective of climate as simultaneously comprising global and local phenomena, nested in time and space - lack of perspective is the second most significant characteristic of your posting on climate change.

    You have been posting unfounded global extrapolations from local circumstances, unfounded temporal extensions of shorter term events, and unfounded criticisms of comprehensive research findings based on limited and narrowly focused proxy data, for years now. You have never corrected any of them.

    No matter how firmly you refuse to learn, ignorance will not grant you the ability to post argument from evidence.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2021
  15. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    * Side note: the misuse of "literate" seems to be spreading among a certain crowd.

    The developing pattern here is the common one we have seen in the decades since the fascist cooption of the Republican Party, brought to its current level sophistication in the '80s as the by now Republican propaganda strategy of destroying the meanings of words useful for political analysis or reasoning in general. Its extension to "literate" - a term not essentially political - would be an interesting development; its role in the destruction of the political power of America's intellectual elite via an attack on the terms common to the humanities, in conjunction with the continuing attacks on scientific reasoning and analysis we have seen, would be one possible aspect, but that battle was essentially won years ago.

    Perhaps more likely or plausible would be an expansion of the ability of fascist propagandists to nip opposition in the bud in real time, by catching anything that seems able to spread and damage before it gets leverage. The illiteracy of the Republican Party leadership may be getting more obvious, the accusations of the educated opposition becoming more plausible as the experience of the ordinary citizen becomes more often the experience of a slew of public embarrassments decorating a pile of corpses half a million high. If "illiterate" is becoming a serious disparagement, it behooves the Rep media operatives to do something about it - they have no affirmative action black President to deflect at any more.
     
  16. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    and....the solar activity cycle has a duration of how many years?....................................
     
  17. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    So does that mean you do think climatologist are climatologically illiterate?
     
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  18. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Why do you keep repeating this?
     
  19. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Because it is the clear implication of what you said in post 8, yet you don't seem to have made the connection. It is a point you need to address, if you are discussing in good faith.
     
  20. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Is James R a climatologist?
     
  21. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    He is reporting what climatologists are saying about this year's spate of extreme weather events. Even you know that. Don't be a disingenuous tit.

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    But, just in case you have short-term memory issues, here is a recent Reuters report about it: https://www.reuters.com/business/en...hange-scientists-update-forecasts-2021-07-26/

    So the question stands: do you think climatologists, such as the ones quoted by Reuters, are climatologically illiterate?
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2021
  22. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    I thought it was obvious, I wondered what your belief is. Hopefully exchemist's further discussion on this point helped you to understand my question. Don't worry, if you side step the question again, I won't ask anymore since the question will have been answered.
     
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  23. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    8,310
    Before you fly too close to the sun young icarus:
    Perhaps
    you would be well served by contemplating the myriad other cycles which effect climate?
    (more on that later)

    and, as/re
    If you would specify a particular cycle, you would be more likely to get a more specific answer.
    Did you mean the Schwabe, Hale, Gleissberg, or Suess-DeVries cycles, or an as yet unnamed cycle of about 2300 years( or, is that confused with the Hallstatt cycle?),
    or other not yet well defined longer term cycles
    and then
    Is the as yet, unnamed 400-405 kyr cycle strictly an orbital cycle, or is there an unidentified solar component?

    ----------------------------
    it seems that the ill informed usually want simple answers to complex questions
    maybe
    just maybe
    that too is due to global warming?
    .......................................................................................................
    speaking of which
    anyone have a good recipe for fried brains with mushroom sauce?
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2021

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