Why do we need it? Is this only intrinsic to our species? Life does not offer second chances at redeeming our actions so that it is "in time" and space. The uniting of both btw has resulted in a clearer understanding of our perception of the actual nature of things. Occuring not in the physical world, but in an abstract mental creation. A copy of the world in the mind. A personal being to which things happen. Redemption offers that being a way of loving oneself and others. We have wasted our life if we do not find redemption because time moves forward, and rewinding it is unnecessary.
************* M*W: I don't see why redemption would be important for us. Oh, I understand the mythology of it, but in practicality, I don't see the need for it. Some say that if we are borne into this world, that is our redemption. I kind of favor that philosophy. There is no such thing as reincarnation. There are no souls per se, so why would we need reincarnation? Life, however, is cyclic, and what may seem to be a "reincarnation" is only a new life on a new day. I really don't get into the fantasy of it. We're born, we live, we pay taxes, and we die. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
This isn't really an explanation. Why must we be made perfect before we could live forever? If god is all-powerful, couldn't he cause people to live forever even if they weren't perfect?
the wages of sin are death. it's law and it's the way he made it...a definition. what the hell's wrong with being perfect? people act as if it's some bad idea.
************* M*W: Lori, I have taken you off ignore, because, frankly, I missed you personally but not theologically. That said... redemption is bullshit. We're here because... we're here. We are as perfect as we're gonna get for the time being. Improvements, however, are underway.
************* M*W: Lori, that's not a definition. It's an oft quoted biblical passage. All you did was perpetuate a lie.
mw, it's law...what i meant by definition is that it's scientific. physical law, biological law, all work the same way...there are certain consequences to certain actions. i believe that redemption is biological the same way the fall of man was...by the blood. our blood is a life force. it contains our dna which determines everything about us. so, if we're to be made perfect, it will be by the blood. that's why they all say it's by the blood of christ.
Medicine woman, you do not see it because you can not see it. You are not a spiritual person (in the Biblical sense). You, and all others in your place, only see with the eyes of the world. Rather than paraphrase, here it is: "Now the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually discerned". You seem content to insist that what you do not understand can not exist because you do not understand it. The OP asked why we need redemption. The answer is that without it the condition of spiritual blindness has no remedy. But the thing is, redemption is completely and only the work of God. He says that He opens the eyes of the blind, and so He does. He also changes that which was spiritually dead into life. No man can do that himself since those who are dead remain that way unless and until God regenerates the heart. That is what redemption is: the changing of a dead stony heart into a living heart of flesh that is able and willing to understand the things of the Spirit that an unregenerate, spiritually dead, man can never know.
The reason the Catholic Bishops were stymied, and still are actually, from doing anything substantial about Child Molesting Priests is because of the doctrine of Redemption. Redemption means, in simple terms, that Religion protects and even endorses the prerogative to Sin. Redemption does nothing to help Righteousness. The Worse a Person is morally, the more that person has to gain from Redemption. Redemption is the Doctrine whereby Religion rewards Evil. Something just doesn't seem right about it.
While a man remains unredeemed he does as he pleases, and will often use religion (a man made edifice) to justify or excuse himself. But that is not redemption. 2 Corinthians 5:17, Wherefore if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature: the old things are passed away; behold, they are become new. So it is evident that if any man claims to belong to Christ and yet continues in sin as before he is a liar and the truth is not in him (1 John 2:4). When a man is redeemed (born again, justified) his whole manner of life must and will change. You are correct when you say that "Religion protects and even endorses the prerogative to Sin." Religion can, and frequently does just that. But the redeemed do not do those things. It doesn't mean that they suddenly become perfect since perfection is accomplished only after death. What it does mean is that sin can no longer be a lifestyle. If it is, then the man is fooling himself. Your remark about the Roman bishops is interesting. I am going to tell you something that most people do not know, and it will shed some light on why Rome does what it does. There are three, and only three, possibilities in redemption: 1. Man makes the choice himself because he decides to without help from God. 2. Man co-operates with God because he chooses to. 3. It is the work of God alone. At one time or another Rome has repudiated all three. So where does that leave them? Why, with religion of course. Redemption does not endorse sin, it repudiates it.
