Religion is Free

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Logic101, Feb 19, 2014.

  1. Logic101 Banned Banned

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    Freedom of religion or Freedom of belief is a principle that supports the freedom of an individual or community, in public or private, to manifest religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship, and observance; the concept is generally recognized also to include the freedom to change religion or not to follow any religion.[1] The freedom to leave or discontinue membership in a religion or religious group —in religious terms called "apostasy" — is also a fundamental part of religious freedom, covered by Article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.[2]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion


    There is a lot of information floating out there. Religion can provide a lot of meaning to an individual in our human economy.
     
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  3. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Considering that religion is inarguably one of the major forces that causes disagreement, hostility and outright war among us, it seems more than a little strange that we think it's necessary to allow it to spread with virtually no constraints. In the USA, religious institutions are not even bound by the same laws that bind all other institutions.

    • They don't pay taxes even though they run a great many profitable businesses.
    • Their businesses are exempted from some of the country's governing rules, such as the responsibility to provide employees with insurance that includes contraceptives.
    • There was even a brief period during which school biology textbooks in the state of Kansas were required to include creationism as a respectable hypothesis.
    • America's "favorite" religion, Christianity, gets to define our holidays while members of other religions have to take vacation time to celebrate theirs.
    Freedom of religion is an outmoded concept that may well bring about a 3-way Nuclear Holy War between the Christians, Muslims and Jews.

    We will never be truly free until we are free of religion.
     
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  5. Aqueous Id flat Earth skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    Private, yes, but not in public. That's why public schools can't lead public prayers that would offend kids not indoctrinated, and that's the reason Bibles had to be removed from certain monuments. In the US that is.

    This is only in reference to Government sanctions. The church you offend can still condemn you to Hell, and the law doesn't care.

    Unfortunately the UN resolutions have no force in US law or our civil rights and liberties would be much stronger. The only protection in the US is the 1st Amendment "establishment" clause. From there you have to read all of the Supreme Court decisions to figure out what it really means.

    What information? How is that information related to this topic.

    This sentence is not clear. What do you mean.
     
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  7. Logic101 Banned Banned

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    That there are lots of myths and fables circulating around sciforums about religion.


    I meant that solace can be found in a religion that teaches peace and harmony in our terrible war-like world as opposed to being dismissed as a product of psychology which claims we do not have free-will.
     
  8. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    And there are arguably a lot of myths and fables circulating within religion.

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    Solace can also be found in a bottle!

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  9. Sorcerer Put a Spell on you Registered Senior Member

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    Light red wine properly chilled.....
     
  10. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    I'm all for freedom of religion. I also like the lack of violence (perhaps not the same thing as harmony). But we don't need religion for that.
     
  11. Aqueous Id flat Earth skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    Ya, since religions are founded on myth, legend and fable. So that circulates. Did you have a 9th grade? You never took World History?

    Are you by any chance posting from Afghanistan?

    Religions messes with the natural order of the mind. We have to punt to the psyches.

    The psyches will punt that to the biologists. Those guys call it "will". Birds have it, even fish. It's a vertebrate thing.

    "Free" will is a code word inserted into religious programming. It's just "will". Nothing more, nothing less. You never took Biology?
     
  12. Logic101 Banned Banned

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    Yes. How is that relevant to my views on religion?

    No. I am posting from North America.

    No. It liberates the mind.

    You are attributing the source to the false view that Psychology and Psychiatry play a greater influence on human behavior than the Metaphysical (Spiritual) and Supraphysical (God). Thereby excluding Meta-scientific explanation.

    Free will is stratified and Metaphysical. You have to earn it.
     
  13. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    Most religions place an emphasis on faith, which is pretend knowledge. In that sense it negates one of our most important skills, the ability to use evidence to determine if a proposition is reasonable to believe.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2014
  14. Grumpy Curmudgeon of Lucidity Valued Senior Member

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    Logic101

    So believing utter BS liberates the mind? Can you hear(read)the words you speak(post)?

    Religion imposes abysmal ignorance, more often than not(Creationism, Young Earthers, Pi equal to 3, etc). You can BELIEVE anything you like, you have a right to be wrong in how you view the world. But if it is knowledge you seek it is not to be found in superstitious non-sense babble.

    Free will implies that there is something for the will to be free from(aside from physics). It is a non-sense concept invented by theists who assume an unevidenced, all knowing, omnipresent deity to be free from. Without said deity it is an oxymoronic concept If your will is not free it is because you surrendered it into the bondage of your belief system, of your own "free will", so to say. Everyone else has free will in that particular sense, though everyone voluntarily(or under duress)surrenders certain aspects of their free will for myriad reasons. An example is joining the military, where you swear to obey the lawful orders of your superior officers instead of doing what you think should be done or what you would like to do. You are BORN with all the free will in the world. You pee and poop where you damn well please. But you rapidly get to the point where if you continue to pollute at will there will be serious consequences and you must give up some of that free will to avoid those unpleasantries. That(and only that)is the only sense that you do not have free will. We just call it will.

    Grumpy

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  15. Logic101 Banned Banned

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    Sorry, allow me to explain myself. Religion teaches self-discipline and through that it liberates us.
     
  16. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    Not all religions. Some religions teach self-indulgence and hedonism.
     
  17. Logic101 Banned Banned

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    I do not consider them religions if they do not develop one's conscience by the ideals found in God's Divine Word. Note I said "Divine".
     
  18. Aqueous Id flat Earth skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    It's relevant to your views that history does not debunk religion.

    How does living there lead to feeling immersed in a world at war? Is there a riot going on nearby?

    How is the conversion of myth into truth liberating?

    If a person was hallucinating, wouldn't you refer them to a mental health professional?

    All that styrofoam collapses under the weight of ten thousand clay tablets, leaving only the God of superstition, myth, legend and fable. You didn't cover this in the 9th grade?

    I suppose fertilization is "earned", but that's all it takes to endow "will" in vertebrates. Fish have it. You never took biology?
     
  19. Logic101 Banned Banned

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    Your minds are programmed to believe there is no God. I am Free- er than any hedonist worshiping atheist conceivable. Atheists are cholchya.
     
  20. Aqueous Id flat Earth skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    By that definition education does quite a bit better.
     
  21. Aqueous Id flat Earth skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    Atheists lack the programming that leads to the conclusion that myth is truth.
     
  22. Logic101 Banned Banned

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    And Atheists live in a false world without the unobservable reality or in denial of it, hence, truth becomes myth.
     
  23. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    So you aren't arguing for religion, you are arguing for a particular subset of religion, namely theism. In spite of there being no evidence for such a thing.
     

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