Religion is the superwalmart of bad ideas

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Magical Realist, Nov 5, 2018.

  1. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Don't believe me? Below are 25 really bad ideas that religion came up with. The first twelve are in the excellent linked article. The remaining 13 are some more bad ideas that religion originated that I came up with on my own. I'm pretty sure there's more, but I decided to stop.

    "Some of humanity’s technological innovations are things we would have been better off without: the medieval rack, the atomic bomb and powdered lead potions come to mind. Religions tend to develop ideas or concepts rather than technologies, but like every other creative human enterprise, they produce some really bad ones along with the good.

    My website, Wisdom Commons, highlights some of humanity’s best moral and spiritual concepts, ideas like the Golden Rule, and values like compassion, generosity and courage that make up our shared moral core. Here, by way of contrast, are some of the worst. These twelve dubious concepts promote conflict, cruelty, suffering and death rather than love and peace. To paraphrase Christopher Hitchens, they belong in the dustbin of history just as soon as we can get them there..."

    Here are some more bad ideas of religion:

    1) Original sin--the idea that humans inherit immorality and sin from Adam.

    2) The evil of contraception--the idea that birth control is wrong.

    3) Sodomy--the idea that gays are evil and should be killed.

    4) Moral conversion--the idea that anybody, even a murderer, can be made righteous by believing in Jesus.

    5) Apocalypse--the destruction of all mankind and the salvation of God's believers in his new paradise.

    6) Healing--the idea that diseases and conditions can be cured by prayer and laying on of hands.

    7) Atonement--the idea that an innocent person can be punished in your stead for your sins.

    8) Exorcism--the torturous treatment of the mentally ill to rid them of supposed demons

    9) Faith--the idea that believing in something without evidence or logic is a virtue.

    10) The evil of divorce--the idea that divorce is only justified in the case of adultery.

    11) martyrdom--the idea that dying for your religious belief is deserving of eternal reward.

    12) prophets--yeah, that whole thing about people who hear voices speaking in their heads being prophets who should be listened to and obeyed.

    13) The inferiority of women--the idea that wives should submit to their husbands.
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
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  3. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

    The original sin the most devastating act for the spiritual soul. Disobedience to God.

    Off-spring do inherit traits of their parents, both physically and mentally.

    So why would you think that is sa bad idea? Unless you think there is no God.

    Otherwise it makes sense.

    It depends how you look it.
    If you think humans are purely biological, material-agents, created from the ground up, by the uniting of male and female aparatus. Then the choice is ours, whether we want to procreate, or not.

    But if the spiritual soul enters, when the connection between the parents have been made, it cannot complete it’s journey due to contraception.
    That’s a lot of pissed off souls.

    That could be a similar situation in the comment above.

    What does it mean to believe in Jesus though?
    Is it simply a case of going to the alter, and saying “Jesus save me”?
    Personally, I don’t think it is.

    I think when we actually believe in something, it transforms us. It completely changes the way we were before we believed in it.

    If someone believes in Jesus, then someone begins to see life the way Jesus expressed it, and naturally follows in Jesus’ footsteps, advancing with each new experience.

    Anybody can say I believe.

    Again we need to discuss what it is to believe in God. Many people think it is simply affirmation, and trying to be a good person. But again, it is about transformation . The more one advances, the more one transforms.

    The advancement, is the difficult bit, especially in materially advanced cultures.

    You should look into Cymatics. It doesn’t seem so far-fetched.

    Not really aware of that one.
    But who is innocent, from a spiritual perspective.

    If you regard humans as purely biological, material beings. Then I can understand where you’re coming from.

    But if humans are essentially spiritual beings, who has acquired these bodies, then we are essentially eternal.
    We are most probably commuting transgressive acts constantly.
    Sewing seeds of action, and forced to reap the fruit of those actions, whether favourable or not.

    Need more info on this.

    That’s not what faith is.

    I’m not sure it’s that simple.

    I think the term has been seriously watered down.

    I agree. It doesn’t work with people who do not understand the roles.

    But the man also submits to his wife, if the relationship is balanced.

    All in all I think you’ve raised some good points that need to be discussed, so we can try to see the spiritual reasoning the lays behind some of these rules and regulations.

    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
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  5. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Jan you did not comment on the other problems in the link provided by MR.

    I think we could add the biblical endorsement of slavery and the call to kill folk who work on the sabath.

    Few areas in life meet approval for the abandoment of reason, evidence, logic and decent morality and praise the acceptance of a notion on "faith"... faith is what folk say they use to believe in the absence of evidence...if one had evidence one presumably would not need faith.
    Faith supports any position which leaves it somewhat a lame excuse for unsupported ideas.
    I have faith in nothing but limited confidence in areas that offer testable repeatable examples of evidence.
    This will be a very long thread if we list all the problems of religions and folk like Jan and Musica then seek to explain why they are not problems at all...predictable really.
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  7. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    you missed a critical one which stands equal to #1.
    Adam is guilty of sin but Eve is actually evil(unclean).
    Adam deciding to sin is falling from purity while Eve is tainted and broken.
    this under pins the cleanness idea around pre puberscent girls in the religous fanatacist cult like beleifs.
    this cleannes via lack of sexual maturity underpins a vast amount of subversive morality which is normalised by most conservative religions.

    a women becoming sexually mature becomes inherantly un clean and un pure while the male is considered clean and pure while being susceptable to falling from cleannes.

    hundreds of millions of people beleive this and teach it to their children.
    it is also enforced via death penalty in many countrys over tens of millions of people.

    it drives a moral, ethical and humane-care wedge between the genders and defines women as being less valuable than men.
    the independance of women is defined as "unclean" by conservative religions.
    their mental & physical independance is sold outright for their cleannes as something worthy of what westerners term human rights.

    women/Eve can be independant in some moderate countrys, but not independant and clean.
    male sin is defined by associating with the independant/unclean women.

    it seems to be a subject of discussion avoided by most modern liberal conservative cultures.

    women can vote, but only for whom they are told to vote for, and that is going to be a male not a female leader.
    women can be leaders, but only if they are appointed by men and have a man that is superior to them.

    meanwhile the very same group of cult/beleivers divide young boys & girls up by gender and delcare they should be treated differently, while they declare men should know the thoughts of and bodys of, and whats best for women.

    demanding the kart have square wheels, forcing women to make them, then blaming women for the kart not going faster.
    as soon as the kart is going smoothly you may be allowed to steer its direction...
    zgmc likes this.
  8. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

    Then respond to the bits I did comment on.

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    I think it would be more productive to discuss why we think these are, or are not, problems. Lest we run the risk of yet another ''does God exist'' thread.

    We should accept our positions, and simply move.

    Wadaya say huh!!!

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  9. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

    Do you take the Adam, Eve and Eden Garden thing literally?


    And if not, define: "Disobedience to God"?
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
  10. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

    1 irrelevant.

    2 what it says.

  11. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

    Such as? What is? How?

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  12. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member


  13. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

    Oh, I think I got it:

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  14. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    I dont feel like responding at all Jan...even if you took the time to read all MR was talking about and then comment.

    They are not problems for my world in so far as I dont subscribe to a notion that there is any truth to religion...religions need to address what any reasonable person must consider problems.
    But all we can expect is excuses and sidestep.

    Take the endorsement of slavery ... so far any theist I have heard comment on slavery try to avoid the problem by saying slavery was different back then or that as the reference was in the OT in is not relevant...not one has done the right thing and declare slavery immoral ...not one...and I wont waste my time asking you for your position to hear more excuses...if you think slavery is immoral you can say so anytime you like.

    Religion is bronze age superstition and its problems can be expected when you refuse to reject its patent immorality.

    You accept what you like but Jan do you really want to be on the side that is so very wrong using your energy and skill to make wrongs somehow acceptable or reasonable...

    Good luck with this thread Jan but as I know what to expect I dont expect any theist to come forward and say..yes that is wrong and we should fix it...what I do expect is more of sidestepping to avoid the various pads of doo doo.

  15. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member


    Why are you you making this thread about me?
    If you don’t have anything to contribute to it, then don’t post in it.

  16. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

    Magical Realist

    I’m sorry about attracting these obsessive atheists, to this interesting thread. It seems they follow me about, load up thread with unnecessary posts, derail it, then blame me for it.

  17. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    Very good question

    And I would add to that

    At what age were Adam and Eve created at?

    From just looking at art depictions seem to be late teens to mid 20's

    Any other ideas?

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  18. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    You don't know what the term "Original Sin" means, do you?
  19. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    There's no innate or inherited tendency in humans to sin or do bad things. The idea of this sort of immorality passed down thru our genes is a myth. While certain traits are passed down, there is no such thing as sin being part of human nature. Every human starts out innocent and blameless.

    It's a bad idea nonetheless. Not being able to limit the number of children you have only results in a life of suffering and poverty. Reproductive choice is a good thing, particularly in third world countries.

    How is viewing gays as evil and needing to be killed possibly a good thing? Such an idea has only resulted in the persecution and oppression of gay people down thru the ages. This is so self-evidently a bad idea it hardly needs to be said.

    What is Cymatics? And is it scientifically evidenced?
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
  20. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

    Doing “bad things” is not necessarily the same as sinning. The kindest person in the world can be constantly sinning, without even knowing it.

    First you need to pin point what “sin” is.
    In answer to Tiassa’s question, the original sin is disobedience to God. Just because Adam and Eve committed it, doesn’t mean they were the first to commit it (another topic).

    If we are devoid of knowledge of our selves, and of God (Supreme Self), we act out of ignorance. We make all kinds of errors in such a condition.

    The bible states that the wages of sin is death, and the gift of God is eternal life.

    God mercifully gives us the opportunity to become self-realised, from any condition, so we can eventually come to our real spiritual senses.

    This is the beginning of liberation from the bondage of death, which permits us to be alive, to experience it.

    How do arrive at this conclusion?

  21. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

    I agree. But shagging as though it’s a sport is not good for the spirit-soul. That’s where the sin lies (another to)

    I agree.
    Let him without sin...
    Do unto others as you would have done...

  22. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    I don't believe in sin. It is a religious idea. How do you think religion defines sin?

    You equate sin with making a mistake out of ignorance. How is that even roughly the same? If you make a mistake out of ignorance, you are not intentionally doing wrong. There is carelessness, but no sin. Isn't the wrongness of an action in its intent?

    Lack of murdering and hating children in our society.
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
  23. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

    Wait, I thought the bible was irrelevant -like Adam and Eve.

    Aside, I thought the Garden of Eden was thee place to shag and eat all day long! Until, well, Eve became unsatisfied with Adam's sexual prowess and all.

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