Religion vs. Thought

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Bambi, Sep 29, 2001.

  1. Godless Objectivist Mind Registered Senior Member

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    4,197
    At a boy!!

    Making a complete ass of himself is what he does best!!.

    Quote Mindless1: "The 20 million Russians who were killed by atheist Stalin will be glad to know that they are mistaken and are actually alive."

    We'll just simply forget the atrocities commited in blibical times which surpase the 20 millions!!

    Oh! but quess it's ok, cause simply slaughtering billions of people in the name of religious cause is ok!!.
     
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  3. Sir. Loone Jesus is Lord! Registered Senior Member

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    Oh Boy!

    But you know, Christianity is a 'Faith' of peace and 'brotherhood' and love for your neighbor, and not like Islam nor Teliban and Alqueta brutality! No! Our GOD is love! The Lord fights our battles, we have Faith in Him! We defend our selves, YES! But we do not go blowing ourselves up because we don't like some one! Christianity is far different then any other 'religion' ever on the Earth! We have a living GOD, a meditator between GOD and man, an d that is JESUS CHRIST who is seated at the 'Right Hand of GOD on high! He can know each and every saint on a personal basses! And knows what we are going through, because He was here with us in the flesh 2000 years ago, and suffered as we do! But all with out sin! So we Christians do have a 'human' -GOD man , Jesus on the right hand of GOD to forgive us for our sins! We live by Faith, in peace and love, not sinseless, heartless, mindless brutality!
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2001
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  5. Sir. Loone Jesus is Lord! Registered Senior Member

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    Ignorance of the 'intellectual'!

    The Bible teaches that you can only cast out demons by the power of the Holy Spirit of GOD Himself! And the Bible is Truth and Wisdom above yours! Knowledge alone answers little! There is far more to existence then what you see! And we humans don't know and never will know all there is to know about their own universe! Super natural is beyond science, above cranial intellect! But yet exists long before even the matterial! You are very short sitied to dismiss the unknown! The GOD that has created you in His image is significant for a relationship with GOD! So the human-race is very special in the universe! The Creator has come to Earth, yes, tiny little Earth, DIE for such as you and I so that we may live! And live for ever with Him! You are much more then an animal but a spirit-being that has a soul that will live forever even if the body dies! But it is your choice, Heaven or Hell! Live and learn, there's more then vain philosophy of humanist to this Earth! There is GOD and His Holy Word, which is truth, and man is a liar before the truth of GOD's Holy Word the Bible!
     
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  7. Godless Objectivist Mind Registered Senior Member

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    When I received notice of this

    Loooone nut I just knew that Sir Loony Tune craped all over the thread!!.

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  8. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Godless

    I keep thinking that one of these days, Loone will accidentally (at least) hit on a valid point.

    He is, apparently, unable or unwilling to communicate; this does not surprise me. It is one of the side effects of redemptive religion.

    So what's funny about it is that I wonder why Loone doesn't just shut the hell up and have faith that God will eventually communicate what He hasn't been able to do from the get-go.

    I think it's entirely possible that Loone gets it; it's possible he understands his faith. This kind of incoherence is what I've long suspected Christianity strives toward. By making people so insulated in faith and dysfunctional in perspective, God ensures that the human race won't last much longer on the planet, thus fulfilling prophecy. No wonder Christians frequently clash with notions of evolution: it's not that it denies God as a process in the Universe, but that it denies God's final plan. Weaker species evolve out of the food chain. Christianity seeks the day when humanity no longer exists. I think there's the problem: they're a bunch of repressed suicidals who need to either get it off their chests or actually take the active step. One way or another, it's bad for humanity for the Christians to carry on in this inbred denial.

    I mean, look at the effect it's had on Loone.

    thanx,
    Tiassa

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  9. Sir. Loone Jesus is Lord! Registered Senior Member

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    Faith in a 'higher power!'

    Tiassa, GOD is love, and is Spirit! And is alive for evermore! He still loves you and 'Godless'

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    and me, and is the United States of America's only 'true' hope! We need Him now more then ever!

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    And will call on Him, we have called on Him more now since 9-11-2001! We Christians pray that GOD will forgive us our sins, and put back His 'mighty hand of protection', to keep us from further devastation!

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    Man does not live by bread alone, but by every Word that perceives from the mouth (word) of GOD!

    Have you two heard that 'unbelief' will not work very well at all in a 'fox-hole', in the heat of battle, in a time of war!? When things get down to being more of a 'hand to hand combat' there shall be many that will turn unto the GOD that gave them the 'breath of life', and He who cares and can preserve them in battle, even take them home with Him (GOD) if they die in battle!

    Our GOD is the Lord JESUS, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit! And He alone is our only hope! War or Peace!

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  10. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    Loone,

    My father fought in WWII in the desert battles of North Africa. He saw many of his friends quite literally blown to pieces. Those vivid images stayed with him until he died earlier this year at 92, and he relived the nightmares daily right to the end. We knew what was happening because he would shout out in his sleep. I have never experienced anything like that and hope I never do.

    He was not particularly religious and was like many who had not really given religion much thought. However, he did witness many frightened men who in the heat of battle would crouch and pray endlessly. They were blown to pieces along with the others. Rather than face danger and reality with courage they would whimper and pray. This happened quite frequently it seemed. He and along with many of his comrades left that war with little doubt about the value of religious beliefs – valueless and the avenue for cowards.

    So please don’t spew your idealistic religious idiocy unless you have real proof that praying can save someone in battle. The eyewitness accounts from my father tell quite a different story. And your mindless babble is insulting and offensive.

    Cris
     
  11. blonde_cupid Registered Senior Member

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    427
    Cris,

    I am especially surprised at your use of anectodal evidence which it seems you dismiss in every other argument but wield like a sword here in an attempt to paint the word "coward" on the backs of people of faith who died to defend our freedom. Also, I find it extremely ironic that you choose to use your freedom and liberty to paint as cowards those who gave their lives defending freedom, liberty and your right to say such things.

    Personally, I thank all of the brave men and women who have given their lives in the defense of freedom, regardless of their faith in God* or lack thereof. They are all heroes in my book.

    Oh, and even though you suggest that your father suggested that he didn't crouch, whimper or pray in the foxhole and even though you and your father and your family were fortunate enough that he didn't actually get blown to pieces defending my freedom like those cowards who prayed, I am thankful to him for his service too.
     
  12. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Sisyphus again

    Camus keeps coming up this week. Someone related to me that Humphries' biography of musician Nick Drake includes the note that Myth of Sisyphus was the last book he read before his suicide. Discussing that, I noted what is relevant here: Camus wrote the essays in the years following World War II. Part of what it aimed at (with its arguments against the validity of suicide) was the hopelessness that came in the aftermath of the War. Europe in rubble, generations shattered, gods abandoned, and flat hopelessness as regards the human condition.

    The use of prayer in foxholes is that it creates an illusion of security which allows further combat function. War being war, this makes it an effective tool if it lives up to its potential. Interestingly, warfare being about killing and dying, this is what God lends to at these times.

    In that sense, it's worth noting that among the casualties of WWII are a menagerie of gods, aspirations, and faiths of hope.

    thanx,
    Tiassa

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  13. Teg Unknown Citizen Registered Senior Member

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    blonde_cupid

    It was a valid argument. What does it say that religious people begging for their lives were granted no such request. The man that wastes time with prayer allows an attack during the distraction. It is a sort of insanity that allows the person to hide under the false perception of divine protection. It the same lack of responsability found in those who give thanks to their deity. Because of the necessary randomness and sometimes blatant deaths as described by Cris it would seem that religious indivuals are granted no special protection, beyond those false promises. It is the opposite, their dependence on their God gives removes certain necessary fears that prevent acts of idiocy and terrorism.
     
  14. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    BC,

    I think you have missed my point somewhat. It would seem that praying for your life has no observable benefit. My challenge to Loone is for him to justify his claims.

    But for those who have no religious beliefs and who believe that death is the end of their existence, then to stand and fight risking everything for the freedom of others is quantitatively very different to those who believe that paradise awaits them if they are killed.

    What my father resented the most was those who should have been fighting but were praying instead. I ought to explain that my father was in the Royal Artillery, he was a gunner and part of a gun crew. To operate such weapons was a team effort, and if someone did not pull their weight then that risked the lives of the whole crew.

    But for those of faith who truly believe that their god will either protect them from physical harm or will lift them into paradise if they die then they should show little fear of dying or danger. But that isn’t what my father observed. He saw hypocrisy.

    What does it mean when a group of Christian soldiers pray for protection and then some of them witness their fellow Christians horribly killed? It should become very clear to them and very quickly that the expected and imagined power of their god probably wouldn’t extend to them either. Now what do they do? They are suddenly faced with reality. Perhaps they didn’t pray hard enough, God couldn’t possibly abandon them, could he?

    Are Christians cowards? I guess this depends on the depth of their delusion and whether they are capable of reacting to and recognizing reality when it pounces. When such people spend a great part of their lives depending on a fictitious savior they will suffer shock and confusion when faced with reality. Religion is an attempt to escape the harshness of reality, and in times of peace reality doesn’t seem so harsh. Facing real danger and probable death in a battle offers a view most of us do not see. Imaginary gods die very quickly at such times, and prayer becomes clearly useless.

    When their imaginary religious shield is stripped away by the realization of reality then the typical Christian faced with imminent death will have trouble staying composed. They say fear of death is worse than death itself. To be frightened by danger is normal. To control that fear is courageous, but to lose control is the definition of a coward. The non-believer does not hide behind imaginary shields and deals with reality as a matter of every day life.

    In the horror of war the non-believer is better prepared to face death than the Christian, and the Christian is more likely to lose control of their fear. And this is what my father observed. The belief in something imaginary crumbles when the expectation of that belief does not materialize into something real. At that point the crutch like fantasy of religion dissolves and fear is all that remains, and if not prepared then cowardice is often the result.

    Cris
     
  15. blonde_cupid Registered Senior Member

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    427
    Cris,

    ***It would seem that praying for your life has no observable benefit.***

    I can see how it might seem that way to someone who doesn't pray and has never experienced the benefit of prayer.

    Getting back to a statement made by Loone:

    ***When things get down to being more of a 'hand to hand combat' there shall be many that will turn unto the GOD that gave them the 'breath of life', and He who cares and can preserve them in battle, even take them home with Him (GOD) if they die in battle!***

    Given what you do know about faith, can you divine any possible positive benefit(s) from this statement?
     
  16. blonde_cupid Registered Senior Member

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    427
    Teg,

    ***What does it say that religious people begging for their lives were granted no such request.***

    What makes you think that prayer consists of religious people begging for for their lives? Do you know what it is that a person of faith is actually doing when they pray on the battlefield?
     
  17. tony1 Jesus is Lord Registered Senior Member

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    2,279
    *Originally posted by tiassa
    Weaker species evolve out of the food chain.
    *

    In a sense, you're correct.
    Bye, bye.
    The lake of fire will evolve the "weaker" species out of the food chain.

    *Christianity seeks the day when humanity no longer exists.*

    Christianity seeks the day when the Lord returns.
    At that time, the weaker humans will discover that the day of the Lord is also the Singularity, and ooops, the Singularity was a lie.

    *Originally posted by Cris
    So please don’t spew your idealistic religious idiocy unless you have real proof that praying can save someone in battle.
    *

    You have highlighted a significant point.
    Praying from fear won't actually save anyone, but praying from faith will.

    *Originally posted by Teg
    it would seem that religious indivuals are granted no special protection, beyond those false promises.
    *

    Actually, you are correct.
    No special protection is afforded "religious" individuals.
    That is reserved for believers.

    *Originally posted by Cris
    The belief in something imaginary crumbles when the expectation of that belief does not materialize into something real. At that point the crutch like fantasy of religion dissolves and fear is all that remains, and if not prepared then cowardice is often the result.
    *

    Again, you highlight a significant point.
    If fear is the basis for one's religion, then one will die like anyone else.
    If faith is the basis, then the results are different.
     
  18. Teg Unknown Citizen Registered Senior Member

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    672
    Tony1

    Believers vs. religious indivuals. I think I can speak for everyone when I say that the hair you have split has the width of an atom. Does that mean that those who died were not by your definition, believers. Perhaps if a bullet were to be fired at you it might be deflected by the hand of your god?
     
  19. tony1 Jesus is Lord Registered Senior Member

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    2,279
    Re: Tony1

    *Originally posted by Teg
    Believers vs. religious indivuals. I think I can speak for everyone when I say that the hair you have split has the width of an atom.
    *

    I can understand your point.
    Non-believers tend to lump believers and religious individuals into one group.

    In reality, believers means believers of the truth,
    "Believers" in lies would not actually be believers, they would be self-deluders.

    *Does that mean that those who died were not by your definition, believers.*

    If they were asking not to die then there might be a case for that.

    *Perhaps if a bullet were to be fired at you it might be deflected by the hand of your god? *

    No if.
    Been there, seen that.
     
  20. Xelios We're setting you adrift idiot Registered Senior Member

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    Was this before or after you were healed instantly from your wounds? Come on tony, all you're doing with this is deluding yourself into thinking you're invincible. I'm sorry, but jumping off the Empire State building will physically kill you, no matter what you believe. Therefor you are not invincible.
     
  21. KalvinB Publicity Whore Registered Senior Member

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    1,063
    I don't recall him saying he was invincible.

    I understand what he's talking about and it isn't invincibility.

    Ben
     
  22. Xelios We're setting you adrift idiot Registered Senior Member

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    He has mentioned in several threads now that he never gets sick and that his wounds heal instantly. Sounds like a recipe for invincibility to me...
     
  23. Teg Unknown Citizen Registered Senior Member

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    He believes that the hand of his god deflected a bullet. Classic delusion.

    How classic of you also tony to believe that somehow you and others like you are superior to others exactly like you for no apparent reason. I lumped you with people who say and do the same things you are inclined to, I guess I didn't plan on your ego blinding the facts.

    Please enlighten me. How does being immune to all outside forces bent upon destruction differ from invincibility. Is that not the definition of the word. Not to play word games as tony has proven so fond of, but it seems to me that in this case this particular word has only one definition that would place it as the subject to which tony refers.

    I am very sickened by your misuse of the word truth. For something to pass the truth test it must be accepted by the majority of people and even then may it be looked at in skepticism. How does one deem their issue true when he cannot agree with the very similar "truth" of others.

    Certain facts that can pass the test of truth:

    Evolution by adaptation
    Einstein's model of the Universe
    Newton's laws
    Crick and Watson's DNA model
    Many accounts of history
    And many unmentioned, but highly tested and proven sound theories

    In these instances the word "truth" can be applied. When discussing a book of fairy tales whose historical accuracy lies solely on 4 stories by men did not witness the acts of which they speak, it is inappropriate. If I and 3 other individuals told you that a new god, the true god, Nvershicap ordered us to retell the stories of an orphen child that threw himself into a meat grinder to pay for our insolance, you would call me crazy. I am simply acting in a similar manner. The fact that you can dupe many people does not make what you say true. Eventually the rest of society will catch up, hopefully not too late.
     

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