Discussion in 'About the Members' started by ck27, Jul 7, 2004.
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I think you need another category - confused. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
At a count of 28 votes we seem to have an almost even split between the religious and non-religious.
Quoth the Raven...
I'm a spiritual agnostic that studies all religions. A studying agnostic; ain't that a contradiction and waste of time, heh. I guess sometime in the future my skin will shed and the "a" will be gone.
Atheism is a faith. It's the absolute conviction there is no god.
yay, non-religion has 57%
Born again. Jesus is my homeboy. It's not a religion, it's a state of being.
1977- the court ruled that atheism is a religion.
Which court if I may ask? It may vary from country to country.
U.S. Court, sorry I forgot.
What the hell does a U.S. Court have to do with deciding atheism a religion? The only reason I could see it as such would be for some type of organization to claim tax-exempt status. But, any atheistic organization that wanted tax-exempt status by claiming to be a religion are a bunch of morons who shouldn't be allowed to call themselves atheists. I sense a subtle attack by the christian right on this one. Perhaps an attempt to make atheism a religion, then claim evolution a consequence, a precept, of atheism. And then bring up the seperation of church and state thing to get evolution out of schools. Tricky bastards.
Do you have a link to the relevant data of this court decision? Regardless of what this court may have said, they are in no position to make this claim. IMO.
atheism is a religion according to the definition of religion.
"people's beliefs and opinions concerning the existence, nature, and worship of a deity or deities, and divine involvement in the univers and human life"
"a particular institutionalized or personal system of beliefs and practices relating to the divine"
to not believe in a god at all is a BELIEF...that is the basis of an atheistic belief system...a perception, or paradigm or whatever you want to call it, that drives the behavior or practice or that person who is an atheist...and is the foundation for decisions that he/she makes in life.
if religion is a belief system, and atheism is a belief system, then atheism is a religion. who cares what a court says....it's logic...by definition.
agnostic is even a religion, in that it's a belief system that says "i don't know what to believe, and i really don't want to know either, so i'll just do whatever feels good at the moment" right? Or maybe "i'm in the process of seeking the truth, but haven't found it yet, so until I do, i'll just do the best i can".
the fact is that everyone has a belief system of some kind. how can one be void of a belief system? the definition of religion does not say that it has to be institutionalized.
Not the place for this. There are several atheist vs. religion theads in the religious forum, but I'll throw this in anyway. If religion is a belief system. (I think we can all agree on that.) If atheism is a belief system. (No, it's not. It's a lack of belief. It's not a system. Perhaps there are atheistic organizations here and there, but they are no more prevalent than say a chess club. They are not organized to any large extent. They have no belief structure. They are no religion.)
Now, I have the feeling you might say that there are religious people who don't subscribe to any one church or whatever. Well, if they are christians then they subscribe to the bible. A definite structured system of beliefs. There is no atheist handbook. We are not a religion. And to call us such is merely a ploy to weaken our effectiveness in the eyes of the religious. And, it's a pointless attempt as atheists are not a true threat to religion. We are not organized enough. If we were organized, if we were a religion, oh boy. Watch those churches fall, baby! Maybe someday. *fingers crossed* But, then we'd likely fall prey to meet the new boss same as the old boss. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
i'm not talking about going to church. i'm saying that a human being can not be void of beliefs. believing that there is no god is a belief, not a lack of belief. lmao.
the definition of religion does not imply an organization or a handbook or a building or anything but a belief structure...
a religion does not have to be an institution by definition. everyone has a belief structure...it doesn't even have to make logical sense. but it is safe to say that no one can be void of a belief structure. you can have your own "religion"...it doesn't have to be widely accepted or shared, or include you in part of some group. but atheists in fact do form a large group...just because they don't form an organization doesn't mean that they don't exist. hey, what about the aclu? that's an organization? that was a joke...kind of. ha, ha.
Laugh your ass off all you want and it's not going to change the fact that atheism is not a religion. It is a lack of belief. The only way that it could be a belief is if all atheists (or at least a large enough group, organized) shared the same type of nonbelief in god. Atheism may be a belief in it's most simple sense, in the individual. But it's not a belief structure, which implies an organized belief system that one may hand to one's descendants, to one's neighbors, to the infidels. It's a religion of one, which is no religion at all.
You're talking about spirituality. That's why I mentioned christians and their beliefs being elucidated in the bible. The bible outlines the core of their belief structure. You may not go to a church, or feel that you belong to an organization, but by following the strictures found within this book, you are, whether you like it or not. And if you don't follow the precepts in the bible, then you are not a christian, whether you call yourself one or not.
Everyone has 'beliefs' but not necessarily a belief structure. Not an organized, dictated belief structure. We can make our own beliefs, but in religion you're not allowed to do such a thing. Religion is handed down by god, not made up by each individual.
You mention the ACLU. Are you saying they are a religion? Do they have a holy text which outlines to them exactly how they are expected to live their lives in order to find salvation by this god-thing or whatever they may choose to call it? Don't think so. You can be an organization without being a religion. You can be spiritual without being part of a religion. But, if you follow the precepts of any particular religion then you are in fact a member of that religion. A member of an organized religion with a specific belief structure. You, Lori, are a christian.
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There are two types of atheism, weak atheism and strong atheism. Weak atheism is simply a lack of belief in God. Strong atheism asserts that God doesn't exist. The first is a lack of belief, while the second is a belief. Religion is not just a belief system, it is a spiritual belief system. The very definition of atheism is "without theism" which is the opposite of religion.
I'm a god.
So invert...you are saying that your belief system is not a religion simply because it is not written down? Ok then, what are your beliefs?
There now...it's a religion.
Atheism...without theism...is a spiritual belief system...simply because it is a belief that is in regards to spirituality...or spirits. The belief that they do not exist. But just because the belief that is defined is that spirits do not exist, does not mean that the belief system itself is not spiritual, because it is in fact exactly what the belief is in regards to...spiritualism. In other words just because the belief system is based upon the premise that spirits do not exist, does not mean that the belief system itself does not exist, or that it does not define one's "spirituality", as it does in fact define one as not believing to have a spirit, or not believing that spirits exist. In order for atheism to not be a spiritual belief system, it would have to define beliefs that were not in regards to spirits or spirituality...for example, if atheism were to define your beliefs in regards to baseball, or politics, or fashion trends.
And the aclu thing was a joke...I was trying to be funny...kinda. And it was kinda funny.
An atheist can in fact hand down their beliefs to their children, just as any other parent hands down their beliefs to their children. A belief system, in my opinion, does not have to be commonly shared either. Though again, may I point out that atheism is in fact a commonly shared belief system. But I am speaking of a system in regards to the fact that the basic premise that there is a god, or that there is no god, in fact forms the basis of a set of beliefs that an individual may hold to be true. A bunch of if, then statements, if you will. If there is no god, then....as that belief, being extremely fundamental, is also therefore, extremely consequential. In that "if there is no god, then....what I believe about everything else in life", given that basic tenet. Spiritual beliefs, by their very nature become the basis for many other beliefs that we hold true...thereby creating a system of beliefs...or a set of beliefs that are in fact related one to another. Unless of course you are one of those people who don't follow any logic...and claim to believe whatever they want to, at any given moment, or in any given circumstance, to suit their own needs at any particular time, whether it makes sense or not, or is even possible, in relation to their other professed beliefs, scientific fact, laws of nature and physics, or even common sense. After all, some people change their fundamental beliefs every five minutes or so, just in order to appease their own flesh right? And when called out, what do they say? "It doesn't have to make sense, it's just how I feel." And then my brain explodes.
Separate names with a comma.