Religions exchange

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by ismu, May 17, 2002.

  1. ismu ::phenomenon::. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    468
    I saw most of threads in this section are just arguing emotionally. Mostly about weather God exist or not; flaws in such holy book; or bad things or good things comes with the rule; Christian's faults; Islam wars; etc.

    All is just because we prefer take our own opinions in debates without listening them first.

    So, I like to start this thread for us to describe our each religion concepts in any aspect. Just questions and answers. Calm down and open minded. You don't have to tell your disagreement. Just dig info, and use it as reference in other emotional debates or start another thread.

    I don't want to hear such "No, you fool, you basturd!" here. We better say such as "What your religion says about...", and explanations about it. Or "My religion explains that...". Or "I like to ask to Muslim / Christian / Hindu / Buddha / Atheist about...".

    Let start about your religion's concept of God(s), human genesis, purpose of life, creation of universe, and some basic rules.

    Any religions are welcome, including atheism.
    Please start...
     
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  3. tetra Hello Registered Senior Member

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    144
    Athiesm

    <i>Let start about your religion's concept of God(s), human genesis, purpose of life, creation of universe, and some basic rules. </i>

    _Gods_
    None, the universe was created in a way I do not know and everything simply is.

    _human genesis_
    I assume you mean how <i>homo sapien</i> came into being. The best theory now is of course evolution, and I will trust it until a better explanation comes into existance.

    _purpose of life_
    There is none. We are here to reproduce, so maybe you could call that a purpose. My personal vision of what life should be is a sort of mutually-facilitating growth of life, where the entire universe is at one point in the future alive and able to think. But thats just me, I can't speak for all Athiests.

    _creation of universe_
    Again there are only theories, and the most trustworthy one is currently the Big Bang theory.

    _some basic rules_
    There are no basic rules of Athiesm, other than a general lack of rules (if that makes sense), and a disbelief in supernatural being.
    There are no pillars of belief as there are in religions, because Athiesm is a lack of beliefs; thus, there is no need for dogma to reinforce it.

    I would personally love to see Athiesm and rational thought spread. I hope that one day an intercultural encouragment of scientific thought and rationalism will one day replace religions. There would be much less suffering in the world.
     
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  5. Markx Registered Senior Member

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    970
    Good thread!

    Can you hear some more from other religions please??

    Thanks.
     
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  7. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    19,083
    Avatarism

    The basics of Avatarism
    (a part of my life's phylosophy)
    (I plan to write a small .doc about my life's phlosophy

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    )

    _Gods_
    no supernatural creatures, but not denying tht humans can become like gods through evolution or genetical or technical improvement.

    _after death_
    not sure, but there is no heaven , no hell, no judgement-> reincarnation is my 1st choice

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    if by any really unforunate means it is proved to be wrong, well then there is death and nothing more to say by it. you become non-existent.

    _human genesis_
    basically evolution tht could be interfered by extraterrestrial experiments in ancient history.

    _purpose of life_
    while existing we create our purpose

    _creation of universe_
    same as Tetra. Noone knows which theory is the true one. at the moment it seems tht Big_Bang theory is the most likable

    _some basic rules_
    Avatarism asks->
    >to calculate forth everything you do
    >do what makes you enjoy your life
    >never fully reject a anything if you have no evidence against
    (absence of evidence is not evidence of absence)
    >be logical and rational
    >always try to improve myself in every way possible


    !AVATARISM RULZ!

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    good to see you back Tetra

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    !
    (I thought my followers bashed you away [remember tht thread?

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    ])
     
  8. dan1123 Registered Senior Member

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    302
    According to Christianity

    God:

    God is the creator of the universe, and the definition of good. He is an eternal being outside of the universe, who desires people to be faithful and to love Him. He came down to earth as a man to understand us and restore the relationship with humanity and Himself.

    human genesis:

    God created the first people, who were given an unlimited supply of good choices in the garden, and one bad choice. The woman was tricked and the man openly disobeyed God, which broke humanity's relationship with Him.

    purpose of life:

    To live life abundantly, which God gives when we accept His Son. And to learn more about God through the Bible and through the study of the universe He created.

    creation of the universe:

    The universe was created by God in six days, but the poetic creation story in Genesis has been held as a mystery over the centuries by Hebrew scholars. The only thing that is universally agreed upon among Christians is that the universe began at some point in the past and was created by God.

    some basic rules:

    To love God with all your heart, all your mind, and all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself. You show God your love by keeping His commandments, which include the Ten Commandments, and others in the Bible. (some have been superceeded like the command for vegetarianism to Adam and Eve, and the command for circumcision given to Abraham) Showing your neighbor love was illustrated by the parable of the good Samaritan in Luke 10:25-37 (the Samaritans were thought of as lowly by the Jews, so it was partially against their racism)
     
  9. ismu ::phenomenon::. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    468
    dan1123, (or other Christians)
    I want to ask you 2 things:

    1) I like to know the concept about trinity. This is the thing I can't understand. How's your view, is Jesus a prophet or Son of God. And holy spirit, is it an angel or something else?

    2) What is major difference in Christian and Catholic? They're using the same bible, but they seems difference. Why? (some history please). :bugeye:


    Jews
    I've never heard about Judaism from their point of view. So, is there a Jews here? Please...

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    Markx, (or other Muslim)
    I think you can explain about Islam better than I do. I saw your posts. And I saw some people misundersood with this. Please, go on.

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  10. dan1123 Registered Senior Member

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    302
    Trinity, and Catholics

    The trinity is a sort of helper for Christians developed after the Bible. The trinity is the three aspects of God Himself. It's sort of kept as a mystery in the Bible. Jesus says "whoever has seen me has seen the Father". The Holy Spirit was given to Christians when Jesus breathed on the apostles. Any miracle done by a Christian in the early church was attributed to the Holy Spirit working through them. In the Bible, the Holy Spirit is defined as a person, and holds attributes of God.

    Catholics and other Christians differ from the Reformation. Basically, the Protestant movement holds three things: By grace alone, by faith alone, through Christ alone. The idea is that you trusting Jesus that you are saved is enough to restore your relationship with God. Catholics hold that you have to believe in Jesus, but also a bunch of other things that have been added in their tradition and their hierarchy. So there is some more complexity with Catholicism.
     
  11. Tyler Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,888
    Ismu, what is it you're interested in knowing about Judaism?
     
  12. ismu ::phenomenon::. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    468
    Anything, but just like the others, start on concept of God(s), human genesis, purpose of life, creation of universe, and some basic rules.

    Perhaps I'll ask some explanition based on your post or something else pops up in my mind.
     
  13. Xev Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,943
    "Anything, but just like the others, start on concept of God(s), human genesis, purpose of life, creation of universe, and some basic rules."

    M, okay.

    Let start about your religion's concept of God(s),

    One God, Yahweh or Jehovah. Aren't supposed to say His name, though.

    human genesis,

    Adam and Eve, but there was 'another woman' - Lillith. Lillith was kicked out of the Garden for not being subservient to Adam.

    (And no, Adamski you prevert, 'subserviant'
    did not involve leather - I anticipate some smart-arse comment from you though)

    "purpose of life,"

    One lives well by obeying the Torah, serving God, yadda yadda.

    "creation of universe,"

    Same as in Bible. God did it.

    " and some basic rules."

    Oookay, basic rules. From what I gather, one keeps the laws of God - Reform Judaism is less strict on these. These include the Levitical laws, but the most basic commandment is to treat one's neighbor with respect.

    Or so I have it explained to me.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2002
  14. ismu ::phenomenon::. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    468
    Hmmm... I saw some similarity between Judaism, Christian and Islam about God, creation of universe and genesis of human. Even seems there are a little variation.

    How about Hindu, Buddha and Tao?

    Xev, I'm still waiting your searching results.

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  15. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    12,112
    Let start about your religion's concept of God(s), human genesis, purpose of life, creation of universe, and some basic rules.

    _God_
    The Supreme Person, the original Person. He never changes, as He is not under the control of time, rather He is Time and therefore the controller.
    Never came into being and never goes out of being.
    His energies are are basically categorized into the 3 divisions, His spiritual, marginal and material energies.

    _gods_
    Gods are not God, they are expansions of God as is everything, they are the equivelant to government department heads. They are the universal government. They are bound by the posts/condition, and work in accordance with Gods Will.
    They are naturally very powerful (in varying degrees) in the arts of mystic yoga, this is why they are called demi-gods, some (Shiva) are almost as powerful as God Himself.
    The opposite to gods are demons, these have the same kind of power, but use it for their own gratification, they cannot stand God, they are envious of God and the demigods and are always engaged in battle trying to usurp the power for themselves, sometimes the gods are victorious and sometimes the demons, now is demon time.

    _human genisis_
    In Vedic literature it is stated that there are 8,400,000 species of life in the material world, of these 400,000 are human.

    _purpose of life_
    To go back home, back to Godhead.

    _creation of the universe_
    Happens all the time, it gets created and then it becomes ahilated, millions and millions of times, think of it like the coming and going of seasons.
    God creates the universe by impregnating the unmanifested material nature by simply glancing over her. The unmanifested material nature is always present.
    The living entites (souls) are of 2 types eternally liberated and eternally conditioned (eternally= seriously long time). The eternally conditioned souls lie dormant inside God after dissolution of last universes.
    The actual universe is created by Brahma the first living being, after meditating on God, and God being pleased with him.

    _some basic rules_
    Always try and remember a name of God.
    Chant that name, so's you don't forget it.
    Always try and and serve God by serving Gods servant/devotee.

    Love

    Jan Ardena,
     
  16. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,125
    He never changes, as He is not under the control of time, rather He is Time and therefore the controller. Never came into being and never goes out of being.

    This statement always intriged the Q. How is it that something never had a beginning ? If He created the universe some billions of years ago or whenever, what the heck was he doing before that ?
     
  17. Xev Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,943
    Q:
    " If He created the universe some billions of years ago or whenever, what the heck was he doing before that ?"

    Probably watching porn or somthing.

    I can't speak for all athiests, but here is my personal philosopy:

    concept of God(s),

    There probably aren't any God(s). If there are, they are either evil or irrelevent, and believing in them is irrational.

    human genesis,

    Life on earth began 3 billion years through purely natural processes, and has evolved since then, through purely natural processes.

    purpose of life,

    To struggle against suffering.

    As a 'femme absurd', I know that my struggle is vain. I cannot defeat suffering. But, like Dr.Reuix, I keep on fighting. As my signature puts it:
    "The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart."

    More on the absurd: http://stripe.colorado.edu/~morristo/sisyphus.html

    "creation of universe"

    Purely natural processes i.e big bang.

    "and some basic rules."

    A bit of a rip-off of the Hippocratic Oath.

    First, do no harm to others, unless harm needs to be done.

    Second, alleviate suffering.

    Third, look out for yourself.

    One can never rely on anyone else, so self-improvment and self-preservation is of paramount importance. Seek pleasure, so long as it does not violate rule one.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2002
  18. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,083
    god likes "The Sims"

    He formated his hard disk

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    Imagine christian god like a 12 year old teen playing "The Sims" combined with "The Sim City" and you'll get a pefect idea

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    He can get pissed of, he might destroy one city, just because he likes watching disasters taking place. He likes to play with his dollies

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    agree?
     
  19. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,199
    ismu,

    Thanks for including atheism. However, as I’m sure you know atheism isn’t a religion but it is a definite philosophical position.

    All atheists share a single characteristic: A disbelief in the claims made by theists. Beyond that each individual atheist is likely to have quite different views on life, the universe, morality, etc.

    The vast majority of atheists are also materialists, i.e. a disbelief in anything supernatural, including souls/spirits.

    I cannot therefore speak for any other atheists so this is my personal philosophy.

    God(s)

    There are none. Such stories were created in ancient times where knowledge of the universe was severely limited and ignorance was the norm. The stories provided imaginative explanations to satisfy the insatiable curiosity of humans at a time when any explanation was more acceptable than adherence to truth. The stories have since been proliferated and used by politicians to control the populace. As real knowledge increases and is established through the strict discipline of the scientific method, we see a gradual spread of secularism throughout the world. As knowledge replaces the ancient superstitions people are beginning to expect and depend on proven truths rather than imaginative fantasies.

    Souls/Spirits and an afterlife.

    There are none. These imaginative concepts were also conceived in ancient times to provide solace to those who could not come to terms with their own eventual non-existence. The concept is still a popular belief by many since death remains a significantly unpopular prospect. And a hope that there might be something more beyond death helps to make acceptance of death much easier.

    The Origin of the Universe.

    There was no origin. The universe is infinite. Something infinite has to exist otherwise we could not be here, since if there was a point when nothing existed then nothing could ever have been started. It follows then that infinity is a requirement for anything to exist.

    Everything we observe has grown from simpler components and modern science is pointing towards a number of basic fundamental particles and attractive forces as the basic fabric of the universe from whence everything else arose.

    The concept of an intelligent creator begs the question of its origin, since how did such intelligence grow if it was not from simpler components. It seems more likely that such a being would have grown from an already existing universe. In which case it could not have been the creator of the universe.

    It seems more reasonable to assume that a basic set of fundamental particles and forces have always existed and from whence everything else can grow and evolve. The alternative is to accept the far more complex notion that a fully formed super intelligence created and is guiding everything with an equally complex set of rules and requirements.

    I do not see the Big Bang as an origin but just a single event among an infinite number of similar concurrent events. This is consistent with our history of observing ultimate causes, e.g. we once assumed the Earth was the center of the universe and the sun circled the Earth, then we had the sun at the center, and so on. At each proposal we shortly discover a greater truth. I strongly suspect that we will one day discover the natural cause of our current big bang and realize that yet again we are nothing special.

    For more information on multiple big bangs read this article by Alan Guth at MIT - http://www.pbs.org/wnet/hawking/mysteries/html/guth_1.html

    The Origin of Life.

    The fact of evolution has shown that all life evolved from simpler forms and ultimately from fundamental building blocks. Evolutionary theories (processes) are still being investigated and developed to help us understand how evolution occurred.

    Basic attractive forces formed the elements, and each element has its own attractive forces that resulted in the simpler molecules and in turn caused the formation of more complex molecules. The very reactive nature of carbon almost guaranteed that organic life was inevitable.

    The Purpose of Life.

    There is none in the sense that an intelligence created life for a reason.

    Evolution has resulted in the creation of intelligence, e.g. humans. It is now up to us to develop a purpose for either ourselves as individuals or as a race.

    Perhaps the most important purpose we should declare is the right to survival and we should make every effort to protect that right.

    The Future of Life.

    The random nature of the evolutionary process that created us left us with some unfortunate side effects: Primarily a frail format that is easily damaged and rapidly decays leading to premature non-existence (death).

    We exist because carbon was the most reactive element, but the result is a significantly weak structure.

    Our future as individuals should be to either strengthen our frail bodies via genetic manipulation, or transfer our intelligence to a more resilient shell such as steel and silicon.

    We are now on the verge of curtailing the largely random evolutionary process that created us and intelligently directing our own future evolution by design.

    Morality and other Life Values.

    Good is anything that enhances and supports life, and bad is anything that detracts or endangers life. From this simple guideline we can easily use reason to determine sets of rules and guidelines that support this concept.

    Freedom should be the right of every individual. Every person should be free to do anything they wish providing such actions do not interfere with the freedom of others.

    The survival of the individual has priority over the survival of the group. It is never right to sacrifice a single individual to safeguard a group; such sacrifice must be left to the voluntary choice of the individual. Either everyone survives or none survive. The rights of the individual are paramount.

    The Future for the Human Race.

    We are currently limited by the confines of the planet Earth that is likely to undergo a massive catastrophe at some point in the future. Other cosmic events may also bathe the planet in fatal radiation that will likely destroy most organic life.

    Our future must be to leave the planet and find homes and lifestyles for ourselves in distant solar systems, other galaxies, or just in the emptiness of space.

    Our current biological limitations severely restrict our future potential homes. Our evolution has tied us to the cycles of the planet, e.g. a 24-hour awake/sleep cycle. And the gravitational pull will make living on planets with different gravities very detrimental. So finding other planets that are near identical to Earth is likely to be extremely difficult.

    However, if we undergo enhancements to a more resilient body shell devoid of bio matter then we should be able to survive almost anywhere and be free of the limitations forced on us by the planet Earth.

    Ultimately if we continue to increase our intelligence at an exponential rate then perhaps one day we will understand everything. Perhaps then we could discontinue this universe and redesign a better one. Perhaps even create life on an Earth-like planet and have the beings worship us.

    Finale.

    I’ve run out of time and need to go do my laundry. And if you have reached this far then you have my sympathies.

    Have fun
    Cris
     
  20. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,112
     
  21. dan1123 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    302
    Chris,

    Your statement on no origin is not supported by your article or Guth's multiple Big Bangs. There is still some beginning to the universe, even by Guth's theory. Do you then ascribe to some other infinite universe theory?
     
  22. Markx Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    970
    I can only try....

    I think this will sum up 3 quarters of muslim belief. It is the chapter 112 of Quran. Simple and easy.



    GOD:


    Al-Ikhlas

    1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

    2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

    3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

    4. And there is none like unto Him.


    Xev,
    No I don't think that muslims call God, Jehova or Yehowa. The name is Allah. It doesn't have any gender neither a plular.

    I like to explain each concept once at a time thou.

    First of all, it is important to note that "Allah" is the same word that Arabic-speaking Christians and Jews use for God. If you pick up an Arabic Bible, you will see the word "Allah" being used where "God" is used in English. This is because "Allah" is the only word in the Arabic language equivalent to the English word "God" with a capital "G". Additionally, the word "Allah" cannot be made plural or given gender (i.e. masculine or feminine), which goes hand-in-hand with the Islamic concept of God. Because of this, and also because the Qur'an, which is the holy scripture of Muslims, was revealed in the Arabic language, some Muslims use the word "Allah" for "God", even when they are speaking other languages. This is not unique to the word "Allah", since many Muslims tend to use Arabic words when discussing Islamic issues, regardless of the language which they speak. This is because the universal teachings of Islam - even though they have been translated in every major language - have been preserved in the Arabic language.
     
  23. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,199
    Dan,

    Yes fair enough.

    While Guth’s theory supports an eternal (future) universe of bubbles it doesn’t fully support an infinite sequence into the past. I’ve heard him quote that a beginning is probably a quantum event involving quantum mechanical tunneling. I have to admit I find that claim, an almost throwaway comment, somewhat unsatisfactory. Even though we would not know where our bubble exists in the series and is potentially one of many trillions, it still requires some form of beginning, although Guth doesn’t express any certainty of this.

    Hawking and Turok do offer a clearer statement on an infinite universe but I also find their reasoning unsatisfactory. E.g. Hawking quotes – it just is.

    Andrei Linde (Stanford) offers a far more comprehensive theory and is really an extension and adaptation to Guth. Initially this also appears to require a beginning but I tend to think otherwise. Rather than inflation resulting from a big bang Linde argues that big bangs are a result of inflation, I quote –

    There are a number of infinite universe theories around and I could postulate my own but I would rather see recognized scientists provide their speculations with at least some support. But really all such theories are very much work in progress.

    Here is the full article from Scientific American - THE SELF-REPRODUCING INFLATIONARY UNIVERSE.

    http://www.sciam.com/specialissues/0398cosmos/0398linde.html

    Even if the beginning of a tree begins with a quantum event, that doesn’t imply that there was a single event but possibly an infinite number of such events with each resulting in it’s own tree.

    Take care
    Cris
     

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