Religious Nonsense

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. Well, in the name of discovering truth it is perfectly civil to ask for the other's perspective, after having made my own subjective (attempting to be objective) perspective. If there is any commonality to be found on which to come to an acceptable generic explanation, a moment of mutual enlightenment.
A peace offering, if you will.

In an honest exchange, both sides should make their position as clear as possible. No hidden assumptions, no distractions. Only then can clear understanding take place and a new language of the cosmic force will be invented to the delight of both sides....a state of greatest common satisfaction. A moral victory on both sides....symbiosis ....Yessssss....

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The one biggie atheist can wage war on

"I disbelieve many more gods than you"

"Oh ya. Well the gods I disbelieve in have been around longer than your piss weak newbies"

"Well my piss weak newbies have upgraded weapons from sticks and stones and can kill in larger numbers"

Let the atheist wars begin

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They'll pick a deserted back alley, pull out their cocks and have a pissing contest right there and then. Dispute settled...both relieved its over.....emotionally and physically....

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Oh if only was that easy

As soon as they agree on which gods are disbelieved in and how many the war changes

Round head or Cavelier?

Thickness or Length?

Raincoat with or without bumps?

What colour?

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Are you implying that your notions of gods are stupid? Why not present them so we can decide for ourselves?

Truth is what reality allows us to perceive as truth. To what degree it approximates actual reality beyond our hamstrung capabilities, nobody knows.

To varying degrees they do, consciously and unconsciously.

To know is always a relative term, it’s always a matter of detail and context.

There is both collective and personal knowledge, the former obviously being more valuable since it also possesses the latter. An individual need not possess knowledge to benefit from it, but they may need the knowledge of how to enlist its use.

Well obviously first is a visit to a faith healer to correct the misapplication knowledge by the medical personnel, and then to an attorney to launch an empirical investigation of the system that is responsible for the alleged harm.

Of course the human application of empiricism is at risk of practical fault, but that can be said of any human endeavor. That’s why scientifically, notions of truth are continually challenged, and the reason for doctrinal change in institutions, religion included. The kicker is that the method of finding the fault in the application of empiricism, is the application of empiricism.

Empiricism, faulty as it may be in practice, is the only method reality gives us to validate knowledge as we define it.

 

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China

Ug me thinks god Thor angry but I don't KNOW why

How can I KNOW why he angry. He never tell me anything

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Shudders.....

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You've tried that in several other threads here, and in the company of persons who hold you to a more rigorous scientific standard. They tear shreds off you.

The further you move into science (which occurs when people start to challenge the "science" behind your claim), the further you move away from "greed".
The further you move to define greed in a manner reconciable with our human experience (which happens when people challenge you that your words about chemicals, etc being representative of greed), the further you move away from science.
And that is just on the human level.
Take it to the position of "life" , or even further to matter and energy, or even further to the universe as a constant, and your problems drastically multiply at each increment.
Fair enough if you just want to say "I have this idea about the possible state of things", but if you try to ply it as some cornerstone tenet of scientific thought, even laymen will call your bluff in less than 10 seconds.

 

Quite clearly, it's because you aren't smart enough to understand if he bothered to say anything.

 

I'm thinking he is making so much noise with the thunder I wouldn't hear if he was saying anything anyway

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more likely miscommunication as to intent or meaning on my part or his
I took it to be targeting science, not those who use science, and the post can be interpreted both ways

if it was intended to mean misrepresentations of those who use science then I will gladly apologize to Musika for the misunderstanding

it wasn't a sleight, nor was it an offensively pedantic evasion, nor was it meant as either despite your intimation, so I won't apologize to you for anything

so the question really is: did you mean it as misrepresentations of people using science, or that science itself misrepresents?
I did state in that post that "a person may well do this, using science, but that is a completely different argument"

are you asking about now or in the future?
for the now: no, however, there is a strong circumstantial case using existing empirical evidence, especially that espoused by the religious as being the holy word of the omnimax abrahamic deity

in the future: the answer will depend on if we can survive, really, but there isn't a limit to science if science is defined as noted

a person believes that it can when?

I bet being immortal sucks when they're eaten though ...

can I hear an AMEN to that?
sorry, I just couldn't help myself considering the discussion...

 

If people think all of creation including the Earth's resources was put here just for them, for temporary occupation until the rapture, they will change the climate like there's no tomorrow. Which is what they do. Science is pointing out the dangers of industry. The religious feel entitled to pollute.

 

Are these rational justifications different in theists and atheists?
Even if Scripture is held as the word of God, as a moral foundation, who invented the actual moral demand and symbolic coding?

Everything is defined by human history and human action. Any claimed active involvement of God is made up by human minds. Humans invented God and declared it a victory.
Yeah, "movement in the direction of greatest satisfaction".

OK, that is my atheist rational justification for claiming that morals are natural (including human) inventions. Humans, theist or atheist alike. Humans symbolically codified the tenets in religious Scripture as well as in secular Philosophy.

NOW, "explain the theist rational justification of these human values". Fair enough?

 

Yes, when you worship a god other than Nature, one tends to lose respect for Nature. The true God (if you want to get metaphysical), is known as Nature, which is an implacable continuity wherein the human existence is no more than a speck of dust with some bacteria running around.

 

As they would off you. If they even deigned to talk to you. Theism is not Science.

I can defend my position on general scientific ground, even as I use a more philosophical mathematical approach than pure physical mathematical approach.

Sorry to say, you can't.......

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No matter how deeply you bury your accountability in the wordfog, you are visibly attempting to claim the status of scientific expertise - actual knowledge as backed by performed research and validated findings and verified discovery and theoretical framework and repeated, repeatable experience - for Abrahamic theology. As if there were recognizable and knowledgable human experts in a definable, knowable, nameable, intersubjectively verifiable, existing, Abrahamic God.

And that is nonsense.

 

One remarkable and important adjustment of a fundamental aspect to the Universe made by theism is the acknowledgement by two Catholic Popes that the concept of Darwinian
(creative) evolution is factually proven.

Think of the implications of that scientific fact to several fundamental tenets in theism....

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The more Science knows the more God just keeps shrinking.

 

Again, why do you demand the theist make the atheistic argument?

 

No I want the theist to make the theistic argument.
Else how would I know what he thinks?