Respect is a modern luxury

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by gendanken, Aug 3, 2004.

  1. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah. But sometimes it doesn't catch them all. Or it suggests odd replacements that you miss if you're in a hurry. For instance, edibles for establish.

    Thank you, Gendy. That was a real compliment. Don't let it happen again.

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    Heh. I never realized that. Good call.
     
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  3. Raithere plagued by infinities Valued Senior Member

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    No. I just like getting reactions.

    Public validation is flimsy at best. Ego mops it up and seems to leave little left over. Ask Kurt Cobain (sp?). Self-worth is something one has to find within.

    To what purpose? Come now; let’s take this road to its end. Somewhere along the way even narcissus needs be left behind.

    Clinging to self, one lives in fear.

    Isn’t that what I just said to Nexus? But standing there, “majestically”, you’re beyond such trifling affectations of the ego. Yes?

    “What a piece of work is man …”

    If you understand the joke there’s no need to pull the wig, you’re already laughing. When you pull the wig the joke is over. It’s like watching the latter episodes of SNL, they keep hitting the joke and hitting it and hitting it until it becomes a grotesque thing, no longer funny. Bundy didn’t get the joke, it frightened him, he couldn’t relate. Why?

    Don’t you get it? It’s the same joke. You’re the same joke. So am I.

    No, it’s more vanity. Piss on rubies and piss on gold… give me crazy-lace agate and opals. Or do you like diamonds? Hoard away your precious rubies; dole them out with miserly precision hoping their value is somehow the greater. Respect lies not in the gift but in the intent of the giver.

    And how the fuck would you know? Did you ask? Or did you pass by with your scornful derision? “I don’t know him. Social mandate, public courtesy, vapid, vile and meaningless.” And often it is. But all he wanted was to acknowledge you as a person.

    ~Raithere
     
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  5. Raithere plagued by infinities Valued Senior Member

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    Agreed.

    It all depends, doesn’t it. Sometimes killing can be an expression of love as well.

    Yes, I acknowledge that. Just not to the point where it becomes an accomplishment. It’s not so difficult that it makes the murderer special or important.

    I think the function is still much the same, it’s still a validation.

    I understand. Respect does not have to take any particular form; it may be expressed in a wide variety of ways, even antagonistically or violently.

    I think there’s something to that, something about needing feedback to retain our sanity. I’m not sure that the self disappears though I think it just grows fuzzy around the edges. Rosa had something about 'needing the look of other eyes' but I didn't have time to keep up with it. Something about definition goes here too… it’s growing late and it’s been a hell of a day. Maybe I’ll have another thought on it tomorrow.

    ~Raithere
     
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  7. guthrie paradox generator Registered Senior Member

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    DAmmit, Raithere said what I'd have said if I was more "intelligent".
    So, Gendanken, why do you want to pull the wig off? Why not just go and find another party thats more to your liking?
     
  8. guthrie paradox generator Registered Senior Member

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    4,089
    As for needing other people, the group, I would put it plainly as other people keep you on your toes, act as feedback, and provide something to measure yourself by. Plus all these other viewpoints that make the world do flip flops when they are revealed to you.
    I wonder is that why I havnt seen Xev for a while, she got fed up being invulnerably correct all the time.
     
  9. water the sea Registered Senior Member

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    We need other people so that we can pursue language, among other things.
    (Language, as we know from other threads, is crucial.)
     
  10. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

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    Agreed. Perhaps self-important. But that's another matter. I don't really think that Gendanken is talking about validating the murderer. She's not saying that murderers are special or important because of their actions. It's more about the attitude of the herd. This attitude which murderers move away from.

    Yes. But a validation for a generalization rather than an individual. Perhaps this is the problem? Hmm.

    I know. I was a major contributor to that thread.

    That's what they all say.

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    This, again, was the point of discussion in Rosa's Look of Other Eyes thread. As she just stated, language is crucial to this relationship among other factors.
     
  11. Raithere plagued by infinities Valued Senior Member

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    I’m not familiar with the history behind the thread so I’m only responding to what has taken place here.

    It seems to me that she is attempting to validate it on some level, that such murders are an expression of contempt for humanity or society. I don’t see it. Not in serial killers anyway. I’m no expert but from what I do understand they do not operate from an above normal understanding of social interaction. Instead it’s typically quite the opposite; they are all but incapable of normal interactions. Serial murder is not an expression of independence from the herd (except perhaps on rare occasion) but a frustrated attempt to join. She's thinking Hannibal when most are the Red Dragon.

    No, I still think it’s a validation of the self. Just on a more basic level.

    ~Raithere
     
  12. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

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    Guthrie:
    Atta boy!!
    That's right, punch that little fist in the air from behind Raithere- I can see you sucking that fucking thumb from here.
    Stupid chimp.
    'Caught me on a bad day, Caliban.

    Raithere:

    Funny, funny. We're saying the same things aren't we? Depreciating human life down to its worth, quintessence of dust.
    One only wonders at the ridicule- looks lika ya only wanna pull on my thong, huh?
    If that is the case then never use Shakespeare against me:
    Yes, what piece of work asked the man in his melancholy.
    The same man that quipped conscience is what makes cowards of us all*.
    The same man who on introspection looked on mankind and scribbled out his formula: one part wisdom, three parts coward to describe its spineless mechanics..
    He sayz 'what piece of work is man' , describing his splendor that in his laughter knew would go to maggots.
    But speak further wise one! 'Use every man after his desert, and who shall scape whipping? Use them after your honor and dignity. The less they deserve, the more merit is in your bounty"

    And they deserve squat, only their employment in one's utility.
    Like I'm doing you to illustrate my handle on Shakespeare and you doing me to get a reaction.
    Why?
    Men, according to another melancholiac, are usurpers and tyrants
    Man- "full of ambition, an envious emulator of every man's good parts, a secret and villainous contriver against me his natural brother. Therefore use discretion. I had as lief you did break his neck as his finger..."
    Yes, what piece of work is man. We are arrant knaves all, believe none of us.

    I doubt you'd call gardening clinging.

    No fucking shit, asswipe.

    Tell me this the next time you have some Christian busy body all up in your beeswax telling you 'stories'.
    What you people shed on each other as respect and courtesy in so many ounces of chit chat and hyperbolized indifference is the reasons for the that bottomless pits we call 'personalities' nowadays.
    FUCK YOU ALL.


    *Rosa, stroke of brilliance. You put me in a Shakespearean mood again.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2004
  13. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

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    Hysterical.
    I'm pointing out the devouring guilt unleashed within the killer, consequential to a state of mind that has amplfied the value of human life.

    Shooting blanks thinking I imagine all of them Hannibals, considering the rampant senility in our penal system.
    For every Kemper and Hannibal, there are millions of proles killing for beer.
     
  14. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    I think "respect" is merely indicative of would-be unbalanced forces coming to equilibrium. Evolution commands "you must survive" at both a macro and micro level. "Respect" to me, is an obvious requisite of both once population density reaches a level where groups must either "respect" or risk not surviving. As we learn to be better and better at survival, words like "respect" become necessary to describe the balance between individuals that allows for survival of the group with which they associate themselves. At least that's what I've been pondering.

    So respect can be viewed as a luxury if you wish, or a burden, or however... but none of it really matters, as it is simply a necessity for people to coexist in the current context. It can certainly be forgone if you're willing to take the associate risks. Personally, I find it beautiful in general and use it in varying degrees. Take a sloth like truthseeker for instance. I have zero respect for that boy on an intellectual level, but I wouldn't kill him or anyone else unless circumstances demanded it. Perhaps ultimately that is selfish, as I do not want the trauma of taking another person's life permanently carved into my brain.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2004
  15. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

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    But does survival entail hypercivilty?
    Does it have to mean human life becomes so invaluable we are forced to be equal?
    No one born equal yet made equal with our cute Constitutions, yet we've survived thousands of years under infrastructures not as numbed down as this one.

    Don't you feel respect generalized into a politeness only captures the dependence on other's acceptance that we find in the hypercivil? As if they are people starved.
    Like...Invert.

    Ain't that right, Verty?
     
  16. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

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    Interesting. We're back to this then, are we? Strange the difference between this statement and this one:

    Almost as though one is contradicting oneself. I wonder why? Hmmm?

    But, this thread seems to be one attack upon me after another. I've become the test subject. Another attempt at beating your 'conscience' into me? Or am I just your punching bag when all others fail you?


    You miss the whole point of my way of dealing with people. I offer politeness at first to those I wish to invite into discussion. It doesn't behoove conversation to lash out at someone. It doesn't allow that person to show their true colors. Although, I think you feel that it does. That because the action someone takes after you punch them in the nose causing blood to flow it truth that you feel that is their essential character? I'm afraid not. In fact, it is a truth but not the whole truth. And not a useful truth in intellectual conversation.

    Now, you've just punched me in the nose and if this were our first conversation, I might just say fuck you, bitch. And move on. No need to listen to Gendanken's rudeness anymore (a path taken by many I might add). But, I have come to know you, I feel and I know your temperament. I am able to take your rudeness now and not be turned away by it. Why? I'd guess because because we have progressed into a form of loyalty. Where I can strike you and you can strike me and we can still maintain civil relations. We have progressed beyond such simplistic judgements of the other's self.

    Ain't that right, Squirrel?



    But, the thing is that this politeness that I show upon initial contact is only a means of ascertaining the others worth. It is being open to them long enough to determine whether the relationship should proceed to respect or disdain. And once that judgement is made (either way) then politeness is no longer required.

    In the case of respect, one might still be polite. Or one might be crude. Calling you a fucking moody twat, for example. Now, if I had first met you that might just offend you and send you flying off the handle. But, I feel that we respect each other well enough that we are able to converse at such levels without damaging our relationship. Of course, I could always be wrong, but that's always a risk we take.

    Or in the case of disdain, one might just show sheer contempt. Or, one might still show politeness. Because politeness is not always a friendly thing. Sometimes politeness can be cold and used as a weapon. I've popped a few windbags in my time with politeness. It's always such a thrill to see them falter and fail to that small quiet voice. It drains them of their will to rage. It confuses them.


    And, I would venture a question here. Which is worse. Hypercivility or passive aggression?
     
  17. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

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    HA!

    Say it again
    One more time
    How I love seeing you squirm.
    This place was boring me to tears. DANKE.
     
  18. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

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    Moody fucking twat!

    Pinche puta moody fucking twatlicking bitch!

    I've noticed. And it's getting tiresome. I've been rather nice to you, you know. We've had a lot of productive conversations and now in this thread over the past several days you've turned about 180 degrees and shown your true colors. I don't know what your real problem is, but you're just showing your weakness in attacking me for someone else's problems.

    You show yourself squirming. Squirm for me. I'm done squirming.

    Oh sure. And here I am the merry jester to ease your boredom. See the dancing freak. Just five bucks!! Pay up, m'lady.
     
  19. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

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    How dare you??
    That was sarcasm, you misearble ingrate.
    Now look what you've done.
    Where's my Harlequin novel? *grasping* My crispy cremes?

    Earthworms were made to squirm.
    They, like you, were born spineless in order that people could crush them without cringing at the sound of crushed bone.

    Fuck you
     
  20. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

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    Sarcasm? Perhaps my reply to you was sarcastic as well? Perhaps this will make you understand the error of your ways? You had a loyal friend in me. And you've pissed on me how many times over the past week? I've taken it. And taken it. And taken it. Why? Because of respect? I begin to wonder if as you say it's all one sided? If I was only transferring the respect that I felt for you. That in fact you have just been using me this whole fucking time in some sick narcisstic fantasy.

    Oh yes Gendanken. Wonderful thou art. Thou words do drop from the heavens like drops of joy and sugar blossoms.

    Please.

    Ingrate? Shit, you should be grateful for sticking with your unpleasant ass for so long. Especially with these jibes you've been tossing at me. You really should learn respect, Gendanken. You'll end up a bitter miserable old hag.

    Nietzsche had his horse. Who do you have?

    Crispy cremes? As if you didn't know. As if they weren't right there on the armchair of your fucking lazyboy the whole time. How's the lazyboy doing anyway? Bearing up under all that weight?

    Oooh. She wounds me. I'm a worm. Only fit to grace the bottom of the great Gendy's feet. It wouldn't matter if I was a fucking ox. Your prodigious girth would undoubtably snap my spine just the same.

    Roll twice you'd be in New York, bitch. Where's that hidden pic at? Hmm? Fucking manipulating bitch. You know that I pulled the right pic out of the barrel. If not that one then two sizes bigger.

    WHAT?! You don't like my routine? Should I dance harder? Learn a song? How about some cat juggling? First I'll slit their fucking throats so that as I juggle their blood will drench me to prove to you what a heinous monster I truly am. Then you can feel so much better about yourself, eh?
     
  21. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    It depends on at what point you make the distinction. It can certainly be over-done as with anything, but the basis for it as a survival tool for groups? If you call that hyper-civility then yes.

    Only in terms of survival. Besides that, our differences are our strengths in many ways. Specialization and all. I mean, I wouldn't want to do the work that most of the people do where I work. I respect our differences immensely in that sense.

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    Well if you're meaning "I can't insult you" as "respect" then you have a point. If you mean "You can't kill me on your whim" then not so much I'd think.

    No, but I don't think politeness is mandated by the constitution either. Note that I like you regardless of your complete lack of politeness. *shrug* Politeness is something I reserve for those who haven't been a moron to me.

    Starved for what?
     
  22. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

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    Fuck you, Wes. Don't step into the middle of this. Me and Gangy got a little something to work out before this abortion of a thread can continue. Hold your spiel, bud.
     
  23. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    LOL. Eh piss off beyatch. I have no idea what you're talking about. I only read the response to me.
     

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