Respectful moderation

Why not?

I have been reading through your various threads about how moderators must always be respectful, must never make any disrespectful comments as a moderator or when moderating, etc. How we must always be polite when moderating.

As we are constantly reminded by people here, there is never a time when we are not moderators. So to apply your suggestion, it would mean that at all times, we must never show emotion, how we feel about a particular subject (lest it offends the sensibilities of various members), we must never actually respond or post an opinion - again, in case said opinion offends particular members or they read it in a way that they deem to be disrespectful.

In effect, what you are asking is that we remove who we are from this site and we become machines, without feelings, without thought and without opinion, to protect and respect the feelings of others.

We are not machines. We do have emotions, opinions, feelings and all the rest that makes one a human being. Being a human being, we also make mistakes as much as everyone else. Myself more than most.

If someone is not happy here for whatever reason, if they make this wish known to everyone, should we beg them to stay? Alter the forum and expect everyone to change so that this one person will feel inclined to stay?

To cite you some examples.. I have been compared to a child sex abuser, inferred that I sexually molested children, I have been accused of being a rapist, I have had someone tell me that it was no wonder my husband left me because I apparently couldn't put out when I was sick and all the rest of the things you can imagine someone saying to another person. Your expectation is that I, as a moderator, am just meant to take this. If this was said to another person, since it is so disrespectful, you would expect that a moderator moderates that individual. But if the person on the receiving end is a moderator, they are to remain silent, not express their true opinion of what they feel about what this person has said, because to do so would be to show disrespect to this other person.

Do you think this is fair?

You have, in the past, repeatedly advised that you felt that some of the messages written in the 'ban list' was disrespectful. To counter that, the sarcastic 2 line PM's you are known to send to moderators (telling us to be quiet, for example) is also disrespectful and if you were a moderator doing something like that, then people would write complaints to you too. So perhaps you can understand why I am somewhat bemused at your suggestions.

No one is saying we are perfect. We all make mistakes and yes, we can learn to be more respectful at times - especially me. But if someone goes out of their way to be disrespectful, offensive, rude, bigoted or in some examples, sets out to use one's real life issues to make offensive and personal attacks against other completely out of the blue, then we, like you, are allowed to respond to such comments. Nor are we going to be respectful to members who openly and repeatedly go out of their way to spam this forum and then create sockpuppets to try to keep doing it. Nor will we be respectful to spammers in general. We aren't machines. We do have feelings.

To put it bluntly (and I don't mean to be rude here). If someone comes into your house and drops a turd on your carpet, do you thank them? Or do you ask them why couldn't they use the toilet? What if they then take their hand and smear it into the carpet? Do you react respectfully? Or do you ask them to leave?

Respect goes both ways. I keep seeing comments like Balerions - about how we should fix ourselves up before we try to fix the forum. Doesn't just work that way. Both sides of the fence have to clean their yards. You can't demand that one side cleans its yard and then continue to throw rubbish into the newly cleaned yard and then complain when the rubbish is thrown back over the fence.

Look at Wynn's response as a prime example.

A polite suggestion by a moderator stating what the possible outcome from all of this hoopla could be stricter moderation - monitoring and moderating behaviour - to maintain that level of respect. Wynn's response is a sarcastic quip to shut the whole place down. In other words, the expectation is from one but never from the other. As Enmos correctly points out, if someone is not happy here, then they are free to leave.

And he is correct. If someone is unhappy here, there is no one stopping them from leaving. Because as we have seen time and again, people who are unhappy tend to be the most disruptive and offensive. A prime example was Mazulu. Who had taken to sending offensive, rude and threatening PM's to me because I dared to disagree and doubt his saying that he ascends to the spiritual realms and talks to uber spirits and that he traveled the spiritual plain and his repeated attacks and offensive comments about atheists (as just one example).. The response to that was a grossly offensive message written in such giant red print that it didn't even fit into the text box properly and a threatening PM written in equally big and bright red letters telling me how much he hoped I could just die a horrible death. And he was distinctly unhappy here and he made sure everyone knew it. Should we have begged him to stay? Or correctly told him that if he was that unhappy, then perhaps he should just find a forum where he will be happy? Ultimately, he got so bad he had to be banned permanently. My preference was that he'd just left under his own steam, perhaps matured and grew up a bit and then one day when he was a bit.. ermm.. calmer, returned and actually participated in discussions instead of telling everyone who did not believe as he did that they were going to rot in hell for eternity... repeatedly..

Yes, people are going to respond angrily to this post, about how I am the worst offender, etc. And I possibly am. I am not here to address these individuals. But I will say this. Moderating this site is a privilege. And it's not one that I take lightly. I also do not take banning members lightly. My colleagues can probably attest that I am usually always requesting reviews, to make sure that certain situations are handled fairly. And I am very open and honest in my opinion - sometimes too much. But I think the problem is that I am also honest and open in my opinions in the public forum as well.

For us to behave as you suggest we behave, then it would remove all of our honesty out of the equation and it would mean that on many occasions, we would have to lie.

Do I think we should be more respectful? Yes. But we can't always be, because to do so, would be the expectation that we lie to the members about how we really feel about something. Personally, I'd rather in your face honesty and deal with the fall out than to deal with false platitudes and false respectful smiles.

So I think you are being a bit hard on Enmos. His comment was simply an honest assessment. I'd rather that than his having to possibly lie.

 

You keep using this accusation of abusing our mod powers when responding to people. In fact, you seem quite offended and angry that I don't fully agree with your assessment if your extensive use of exclamation marks is to be taken seriously. Remember, this is a matter of opinion. Neither of us are authorities on what constitutes the perfect moderator. You keep telling us that if you were a mod you would not do this or that. Even as not a mod, you have done this and that - such as the bizarre little PM's you send out with rude and curt orders about discussions or issues you are not even involved in.

Can you site an example where this (abusing mod powers when responding to people) has happened?

Such an accusation would mean that any response we give in moderation is an abuse of our moderator powers. It would mean our mod notes were an abuse of power. Just our mere posting an opinion could be an abuse of power if someone saw it as disrespectful or offensive. For example, when I expressed disgust when one former member advised that he felt a mother having sex with her baby son would be beneficial to that child and not harmful if the child was not penetrated, was I being disrespectful? How would you have responded to such a statement? After all, you are constantly reminding us of what you would not do as a moderator. Why don't you tell us what you would do as a moderator? What would you politely do as a moderator if out of the blue, someone accuses of you of sexually abusing your children, for example? Or if they do it to someone else? Is it disrespectful to threaten them with moderation for it? Impolite?

For example, I have yet to see a "you're an arsehole" in a mod note. What many do see and perhaps may not realise is that the warnings issued are automated. We rarely post our own comments in those and when we do, it is usually a sentence asking them to stop whatever it was they were doing. Or when you imply that we are like children? Do you think this is respectful? I respond to you politely and tell you what I feel and you infer and respond with 'act like an intelligent adult'. Respect goes both ways. And it is reasonable that both sides get to have a say in this, don't you think? Not just one telling us and then inferring we are not responsible adults if we respectfully disagree with something.

One of my colleagues commented that correctly describing a particular form of behaviour was insulting or rude. For example, describing someone who makes homophobic statements, or racist statements or who trolled as a homophobe, racist or troll was offensive and name calling. Should we ban these words for politeness? I would disagree. No one is saying there is no room for improvement. Far from it. What I am saying is that as adults, we also aren't punching bags and we should not be placed or forced into a position where we face abuse and insults with no recourse because of our position on this site. I mean, I could lie and be dishonest about how I feel. You know, all for the polite cause. Or I can be honest and tell people what I feel. I think it's more respectful to not lie to people, personally anyway.

Not everyone will view something as being polite. The person being moderated will never view it as respectful or polite. So which or whose interpretation of politeness should we follow?

For example. If I say "Please stop posting homophobic and racist comments".. Would you consider this polite? The person at whom this is armed will not consider it polite. Should I say nothing if someone is posting homophobic and racist comments.. you know, to be polite?

It's very easy to judge from the other side clueluss. For example, the belief that a moderator just gets away with things. We don't. We never have been. Sometimes it explodes out into the forum, but to declare that we remain silent on such issues is vastly incorrect. Armchair moderation, like armchair tennis (which my father is guilty of), armchair football (also. dad.. *sigh*), armchair driving (my mother), armchair politics (me) is always easy. Perhaps a fresh perspective is great. But you also need to understand that we also have opinions and feelings on the matter. Perhaps instead of telling us and judging us based on what you would not do as a moderator and using words like 'reasonable and intelligent adults' in face of any disagreement, you could listen to what we'd like to implement and what we'd like to try to do and what we actually try to do, for ourselves as our role here, but also as members and poster's on this site.

 

Thank you! Much appreciated.

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