Russia repeats its mistakes of pouring money into military

Discussion in 'World Events' started by cosmictraveler, Jun 2, 2015.

  1. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    If you recall Russia went bankrupt when it was the USSR mainly because it kept spending more and more money on its military instead of trying to build a viable economic business within its country. By pouring money into the military its value of the Ruble went down and finally went bankrupt so why is Russia on this same course again? Putin is the major cause so that his cronies can get money under the table who are on the take. So as we watch Russian military flex its muscles we also see the Ruble spinning downward towards another bankruptcy. Why is Russia doing this you ask well there are a few answers.

    Russia has a affinity for military and to sell weapons to make money to build more weapons. So Russia needs to keep the world in a turmoil so that it can do just that. It creates problems so that it can sell more then send in advisors to pull the strings of the puppets they put in charge. True America does the same thing but not as the aggressor but playing the role of trying to help out like the good guy routine. They both have their hands in the pot stirring it up so that more weapons are bought.

    Russia is trying to spread out as it did when it was the USSR by actively invading other nations like the Ukraine. Although no other country, like the Ukraine, is trying to attack Russia so why is Russia needing to build weapons all the time? If no one is attacking why do you need that many new ships, planes and guns? Again America is doing the same but only trying to keep pace with Russia as its economy is now in debt to the sum of 18 TRILLION dollars.
     
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  3. orcot Valued Senior Member

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  5. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Russia and more specifically Putin is delusional. His economy, the Russian economy, is puny when compared to those of his adversaries. While Putin's increased military spending now accounts for more than a third of the Russian economy, it is still only a tenth of US military spending. Even if it were possible for Putin to spend every last Russian Ruble on building his military, it would be just a small fraction of the amount spent by his adversaries (e.g. NATO).

    So Putin can parade around his military hardware and then tow away the equipment which breaks down on the parade route, he isn't impressing anyone other than his fellow Russians because he controls what they see, what they hear, and what they say. The unpleasant fact for Putin is even if he spent every last Russian ruble, he can never compete with NATO and the powers allied against him. He can't even compete with the US. His 2 trillion dollar economy just doesn't have the horsepower needed to support the military complex and power he envisions and covets. Russia is a small pariah state and will remain a pariah state as long as Putin or someone like him remains at the helm of the Russian state.

    Military Spending by Country:

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2015
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  7. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    But it doesn't have enough money to build up another military and supply money to its citizens. So why does it continue to try and retrieve the past when it was a past of failure when it put its money only into its military? We saw the USSR dissolve away and no glory was gained by its stupid way of trying to show the world how great it is. The USSR went the same way that Russia is heading today. There's no other country that is trying to attack Russia so why does it need such a mighty military?
     
  8. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    Russia spends 3.7% of it's GDP on military the US spends 3.3%.
    I don't like where Russia is going I still hope they will sort of end up like the EU's Texas but we shall see.
    Russia has no clear enemy and the west makes it pretty clear their dispute is with Putin not with Russia hopefully things snap back in place as fast as they went wrong. Despite everything a collapse of Russia in it's current form would be a disaster. (their would be a genuine change that china would go afther Siberia for example, ciscaucasia would become a extremist hot bed (more then today)certain infrastructure like the leningrad nuclear power plant could fail catastophically risking both saint petersburg and the baltic countries in a way not even Russias militairy could).

    In short Europe needs Russia intact, both for stability and influx of raw resources, the first part is a problem under Putin.
    Russia on the other hand needs Europe as a trading partner and for development.
     
  9. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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  10. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    The World Bank has the following military expenditure data:
    (expressed as a percent of GDP)

    Russian Federation

    2010: 3.9%
    2012: 4.0%
    2013: 4.2%


    The United States

    2010: 4.7%
    2012: 4.2%
    2013: 3.8%

    http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS

    Russia's military spending is going up while US military spending is going down. It runs counter to Putin's line that the West is ganging up on poor little Russia. One more thing to note, the US needs to sustain a global military enterprise in order to meet its global defense treaty obligations. Russia doesn't have those military obligations as Russia is not a global power. Russia's defenses are largely centered on its borders where it has used its troops to invade, occupy and annex neighboring states. Russia is a regional power in a region where its neighbors are weak military powers. So there really is no good rational reason for Russia's increased militarization.

    Yeah, I don't like where this is going. There can only be one reason for Putin's increased militarization of the Russian state and that is to invade weaker neighboring states as he has done. I don't think Putin is so delusional as to think he has a chance in hell of winning a military confrontation with the West. But he does think he can invade his neighbors at will as he has done. And he thinks he can avoid the impact of Western sanctions by developing his economy internally. Time will tell if that strategy works for him.

    The West doesn't want a destabilized Russia, the world already has too many destabilized states (e.g. Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, et al). That is why the most crippling economic sanctions have yet to be imposed on Russia (e.g. barring Russia from the international banking system). But there are lines that cannot be crossed. And if Russia and more specifically Putin crosses those lines, those sanctions will need to be imposed. We cannot have Putin resurrecting another fascist state and rebuilding a fascist empire in Europe. We saw how well that worked out the last time a petty dictator tried that, it's called WWII. Russia has really only one natural resource of value to the West and that is petroleum. But the West has alternatives to Russia's petroleum and is even now taking steps to access those alternatives and reduce its dependence on Russian petroleum products. The US is building natural gas export facilities and oil is flooding the markets. And an Iranian nuclear deal will allow Iran to sell more than a million more barrels of oil per day. Oil is flooding global oil markets and the flood will get larger in the coming months. US oil producers continue to produce more oil with each passing month. I wouldn't be surprised to see $40 dollar oil in the coming months.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2015
  11. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    that's 2.5-3 million people who pay taxes, they also make $13.5 billions by exporting said weapons (recovering a small 15% of their 84.5 billion budget). Also this export has risen 5 times (2 times taking in account inflation) since 2002. It's a excuse I gues.

    We shall see abouth the oil. But their is a Obvious trent on how post communist nations have improved their economy and Russia is clearly threatend by it.



    source
     
  12. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Putin is threatened by it.
     
  13. orcot Valued Senior Member

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  14. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Well Mother Russia's attempt to modernize its military by 2020 is running into a few problems. It kind of reminds me of the glory days of the Soviet Union where Soviets plowed lots of money into their military and in the end most of it didn't work. But you gotta keep the big guy at the top happy or lose your life or wind up in a gulag. Russia has spent more than half the amount it has budgeted for military development but only achieved 38% (and that is probably an overly optimistic number) and the year is more than half over...oops. Who will be the lucky guy who gets to tell Comrade Big, who is in reality really quite small?

    http://www.businessinsider.com/russ...it-another-snag-and-putin-is-not-happy-2015-7
     

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