Russian actors helped Trump and Republicans in election

Originally referring to nations of non jews: In its broader sense, goyim indicates "the other" and, not to be trusted.

So far, no proof has been proffered to support the claim that "the russians did it".

What we have is idle propaganda proffered by those who would have you focus on a supposed external "enemy" rather than on domestic policy.

That being said: Those of you who would hold the concept that "the russians did it" as sacred, holy, beyond question or reproach, leave no room for truth.

"Never try to use logic nor reason to dissuade someone who arrived at a position using neither."

"Nationalism" may not be a disease inflicted on the masses by those who would rule them, but it certainly seems an extension of clanism and tribalism without the commonwealth implied by those systems of organization.

 

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Er, get them to elect Trump?

Unless you contend that the CIA is disseminating "idle propaganda", I suppose.

 

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I'm always amazed at the ability of the American right wing to ignore evidence and reason. Yet, they so readily believe fake news. It's truly impressive. Unfortunately for right wingers, most Americans aren't as dumb as they need them to be.

All American intelligence agencies are in agreement that the evidence is overwhelming. Congressmen who have seen all the details are in agreement. So who is in disagreement? Trump, his devotees, and all the fake news sites.

Truth isn't propaganda. Only in right wing, Russian, and Chinese circles where the government owns and controls the press and where truth is an anathema to party dogma is the truth derided as propaganda.

You don't think our electoral processes are domestic policy?

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Seriously....?

Hmm....again I'm reminded of this piece of timeless wisdom: Matthew 7:5
"Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye;
and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

Nationalism is a disease inflected on the masses by those who would control them. Hitler, used it. Putin is using it, and Trump is using it.

Do you have proof Putin didn't do it? Do you have proof the private security firm who does work for both parties is either lying or totally incompetent? Because that firm caught the Russians as they hacked DNC computers. Do you have evidence to support your contention that all of the American intelligence agencies are totally incompetent or are part of some vast conspiracy and are falsely accusing the Russians? If you do, now's the time to show it.

This is a big problem for the American right wing; they summarily and without merit reject evidence and reason in favor of fake news: e.g. Pizzagate.

 

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The US has plenty of Jews. And they trust non-Jews. Maybe avoid such offensive notions when they are irrelevant?

Also, the CIA said so, and it's their job to know these things. That's what we pay them for. The faith position appears to be Trump's. Because he takes it as an insult to his legitimacy. We need a leader with a thicker skin, and brains.

 

You mean, other than the proof that the CIA (the organization whose job it is to analyze such things) has.

The Russians certainly influenced the election through their actions. None of that is "sacred, holy, beyond question or reproach" - it is merely the analysis of our intelligence agency.

 

What is perhaps being unsaid is the suspicion on the part of that who support(ed) Trump that the CIA is being partisan and cannot be trusted.

We have ,perhaps to imagine how we would feel if the roles were reversed ,Clinton had won and the CIA had just come out with an assessment that Russia (or another state perhaps) had hacked into the Trump campaign ,arguably queering the playing field.

Would Clinton supporters go along with this assessment? I prefer to think that they would ,reluctantly but what if they suspected the CIA was pro Trump or somehow being manipulated by Republicans?

I merely ask. It is hard to understand the reaction of some people to the possible interference of foreign actors/governments into the electoral process. Maybe they do not hold the democratic process in high esteem in the first place? It feels like Putin has burgled the house and is making out with the daughter.

 

Well let's look at what Democrats did do. The Obama administration, which is a Democratic administration, learned about this in June of this year. But they withheld releasing the information for fear Republicans would accuse them of partisanship. Instead, they notified members of Congress in attempt to get bipartisan support for making the information public. The administration didn't get that support. Republican members of Congress and in particular the Senate majority leader expressly insisted the information be kept secret, and the Democratic administration complied.

"For one, the White House was probably afraid of looking like it was tipping the scale in Hillary Clinton’s favor, especially in an election that her opponent repeatedly described as rigged. Though Obama stumped for Clinton around the country, the administration didn’t want to open him up to attacks that he unfairly used intelligence to undermine Trump’s campaign, the Post reported.

Instead, top White House officials gathered key lawmakers—leadership from the House and Senate, plus the top Democrats and Republicans from both houses’ intelligence and homeland security committees—to ask for a bipartisan condemnation of Russia’s meddling. The effort was stymied by several Republicans who weren’t willing to cooperate, including, reportedly, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. (On Sunday morning, a bipartisan statement condemning the hacks came from incoming Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, Jack Reed, a Democrat, and Republicans John McCain and Lindsey Graham.)" https://www.theatlantic.com/technol...out-russias-influence-on-the-election/510242/

Democrats are not Republicans, and Democrats have exerted civility, patriotism, and morality. Republicans have not. This Republican rationalization that, "well Democrats would have done it too" is not only false, it's getting really old.

 

We don't need to imagine. The FBI's last minute announcement that they were "reopening" the investigation into Clinton was met with unquestioning belief by the right wing. Even when they admitted they had nothing new, the right wing continued to tout the reopening as proof she was crooked.

 

This is exactly why folks like Nancy Pelosi have demanded a bi-partisan, joint, special task force to investigate this... to get to the truth, regardless of who or what it implicates and how much "dirty laundry" may be aired.

 

Only reasoning from overwhelming evidence and the official assessments of the best informed professionals.

 

It's fun watching the right wing meltdown over this.

"CIA investigation revealed Putin worked to sway US election" - what BS! What, like the CIA knows what's going on in other countries as it affects the US? What a joke. There's no proof! You Trump haters are all sore losers! It's all the lamestream media.

"Infowars claims that Clinton is running a child sex ring in the basement of a local pizza place" - WHAT? We need an investigation immediately! This is serious. She's going to jail this time! Why is the mainstream media ignoring this critical story?