samcdkey on Islam

That's easier said than done!

 

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Don't tell me, you're Hem.

 

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hahaha...

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You apparently don't agree that we need to be careful what we fill the minds of out children with, and if you think it's fine to fill their heads with superstitious religious nonsense, then you are part of the problem.

Since superstition is far from what we would call an educational requirement, why then do you feel it is fine for this to take place in the classroom, were children being as impressionble as they are, will genuinely believe these fairy tales to be true? This is where it is forced as children are not being given an alternative. I genuinely believed Adam and Eve were the first two humans on Earth. And what I am bitter about is the fact that I was once a Christian fundamentalist like the ones you see in the Bible Belt. Our teachers stigmatised protestants and even worse... people who didn't believe in God.

Sam, for once stand up and admit this is wrong and stop trying to equate this irrational trite with all other things.

 

Since you apparently "escaped" this indoctrination, it does not work as well as you claim it does. In other words, you choose not to believe what your parents or school taught you.

I assume you believe that all humans should have the same freedom. They do.

If they choose to believe what they do, that is their choice.

If they disagree they will change, if not, who are you to decide for them?

Intolerance is wrong, I don't condone it.

In theists or atheists.

edit: would you consider the opinions of others as to what should be taught to your children as superior to your own?

And no, I don't think children should be taught religion in school, where did I say that? However they should be taught about all religions, to improve knowledge of world religions and tolerance to other beliefs.

And if by out children you mean our children, I don't recall having any with you.

 

I had to wait over a decade before I had to choose, and even then the stains of religious identity were still strongly instilled within me. And wether some fish slip through the net isn't important, telling children what to believe remains wrong even if they get to reject it when they are old enough to understand it.

And I think you will find that forced religious indoctrination is as effective as I claim. Why else does religious faith depend on your location? Entire cities/regions divided by different faiths is a telling reminder of that.

Many of us find logic and reason no matter how extreme the brainwashing. But the point is that years worth of brainwashing from figures of authority result in automatic acceptance from children, and that belief will more often than not, transfer into adulthood. Religion should be a choice and a choice made by people who understand that religion and the alternatives (including non-belief). Children do not have the ability to make a distinction which is why we should be careful what to spoon feed them.

Children don't have a choice. They will believe what they are told to believe.

They don't have the ability to disagree until they are adults. Most infact are so brainwashed they can't make a rational decision on the subject when they become adults because their religious indentity has long ago taken it's root... In a modern society, we must not spoon feed ANY belief to children, and that includes atheism.

 

The best answer to all your disagreements here is just one- education.

We are taught religion differently in India and our practice of it is also very different; even then there are extremists, but on the whole we have a policy of tolerance to all beliefs (and disbeliefs). I understand the problems faced here are different, but I see that the solutions are still the same, which have never worked but are still utilised.

Forced integration never works. NEVER.

Not for race, not for culture, and definitely not for religious beliefs.

If you want to move forward, find a solution that works.

 

sam, you must count yourtself lucky not be born an afghani or saudi where a "woman" would have no choice in either societies to choose her belief's and lifestyle...right?

 

Hey I also count myself lucky not to be born in India during the British occupation when indigenous people (men and women) were treated like crap and had no freedom.

 

Is Islam wrong on any counts, sam? It's just that you are busy pointing the finger in another direction when someone points the finger at your faith. Is Islam infallible?

 

You're awfully familiar for someone with 20 posts.

You wouldn't be a sock puppet would you?

 

We atheists all sound the same.

 

That is an evasion not an answer. I know several atheists on this forum and no, you do NOT all sound the same.

 

Right now they are the biggest problem faced by Muslims.

http://www.muslim-affairs.com/science/artikel.cgi?nr=53

http://www.shianews.com/hi/talking_corner/topic_id/0000002.php

 

"laughter and song forbidden"

Happiness is a state of infidelism.

 

Happiness my dear (Q) is a state of mind.

And don't worry not all of us support the Wahabis.

In fact, we dearly wish that those who do support them would stop doing so.

 

"only one form of Islam permitted."

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't that the whole purpose of a religion, at least one where the idea is one god with one message for all? Why wouldn't all Muslims support that?

 

There is no disagreement on One God, Muhammed or the Quran.

But scholars frequently debate on what the verses, Hadith and Sharia can be interpreted as.

The Islamic tradition is based on ijtihad (review of all the work of scholars from the time of Mohammed until now):

 

I count myself lucky not to be born in the lower classes of England during this same period when lower class people (men and women) were treated like crap and had no freedom.

I also count myself lucky not to be born in the lower castes of India before British occupation, when lower class people (men and women) were treated like crap and had no freedom.

BTW, the Indian elite didn't do too badly for themselves under British rule. Though I am not condoning British or any other occupation.


But what is your point here, are you trying to say that two wrongs make a right, that beacuse wrongs have been committed in the past it is acceptable for them to be committed now. Or by this comparison are you admitting that wrongs are being committed in Afghanistan or Saudi ?

 

Yes. And that it is not a new phenomenon in the world for those with power to abuse it.