Discussion in 'Eastern Philosophy' started by BLASTOFF, Mar 15, 2006.

  1. EmptyForceOfChi Banned Banned

    discipline, listen to your master he will guide you,

    then after time you will understand self discipline, when self disciline is mastered you know your own way.

    master the self before you master the sword,

    you will find in the end you cannot master the sword, you are just further mastering yourself,

    saying one can master the sword is no different from mastering your arm,

    we are taught to master the pen, with art you will gain control over the sword, but mastering art cannot be done, once you think you have mastered the brush you realise that you are just mastering yourself, the brush like the sword is the self.

    you are the painting as you are the battle,

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  3. EmptyForceOfChi Banned Banned

    oh yeah and horse stance for 30 mins + is very hard, try some other stances too nameless,

    hugging tree stance is good,

    eagles claw first and second position,

    try assuming horse stance over a big caldron/pot/bucket of water on an icey cold morning and slap it with your palms over and over untill the water is gone or verry shallow,

    that last 1 is for mental toughness, and very effective at that.
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  5. EmptyForceOfChi Banned Banned

    bieng consistant is very very important,

    the student once said to the master "when am i going to get to the good stuff"

    the master replied "the basics are the good stuff get back in horse riding stance"

    do it over and over and over and over, every single day pure effort.
    i spent a whole year for about 1-2 hours per day just walking up and down a hall, i would take a stance at one end of the hall, step forward with power with my right leg and right arm following with a punch, then left leg forward with power with left hand following with a punch,

    do this over and over up and down in a long line back and forth in a big space. it will help your body coordinate as you strike with a left hand your whole left side should follow it, hips/waist. footwork, shoulers. for a double hand strike palm or fist. take a half low stance (medium) as you thrust your arms forward to strike stick your waist and ass backwards, using your back and legs with your arms for max power.

    once you have been taught a small method or technique practice it over and over untill it beccomes reaction,

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  7. nameless Registered Senior Member

    I think that I may be wasting my time here.
    There are hundreds of people 'lurking' and a small handful contributing. I have offered some of my best stuff, some 'honest-by-god' words of wisdom; thoughtfully, carefully and often artistically rendered!
    They seem to be leaving 'echoes'.
    Feedback is rather intensely scarce, unless to try to put down someone's 'offering', or a quick, "Yeah, and... (insert your own rant).." (as above).
    I fear that all these words of gold are just floating, unrecognised, undigested, often unobserved, right through the window. I am not referring to anyone in specific, this seems to be a general trend that I am recognizing on fora across the net. If there are none being piqued, intrigued, resonating in their depths with the wisdom I am presenting, I guess that I'll move on to hopefully more 'fertile' ground. Thank you all for the conversation and the opportunity to organize my thoughts a bit.

    Are you instructing me?
    It sounds that you are trying to live the legends. Nothing wrong with that, but I think that you (and 'you, and 'you!..) are missing the true and valuable points that I am making. Going on with this.. 'egoic one-upsmanship' indicates either that you are not reading my posts or not understanding their meaning.

    I no longer need 'stances'. I no longer have anything to 'prove' to myself or anyone else. There are no more surprises (to be 'prepared' for...).
    Perhaps someday you will see 'behind' all those 'stances', all that 'consistency', all those 'repetitions', all that speed and power... all that 'vanity'.

    One becomes the 'Tao', the 'Way, after diligently searching everywhere else (sincerely following the Way).

    And, with (despite) all that obvious 'one-upsmanship', I do not believe that you can maintain a correct Horse Stance for 30 min much less the rest of that vanity, slapping the 'ice' (cold in those Japanese mountains, eh?) water, indeed... Sounds good though. David Carradine grasshopper stuff. Like the 'katana' that cleanly slices through a machine-gun barrel, or the sword sitting stationary and vertical in flowing water, cleanly slicing a leaf that the current gently propels against the blade.
    Lies in the name of Truth are the most insidious lies of all!
    The Way of the Sword is the Way of Truth. ("Cold against the sky!") Nothing more and nothing less.
    Good luck.
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2006
  8. EmptyForceOfChi Banned Banned

    i like reading your posts,

    i understand what you say

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    yes and your right, i do try to live the legends, but i am trying to be better than them all.

    my ego is still with me, and i realisd something, i like it, it gives me an advantage, to be better stronger and faster, i can see past my ego but i encourage it consciously all the time. to be aware of it and control it, is just as good as ridding of it completely.

    one day maybe i will try to fully rid of it, who knows, but not for now,

    and no i cannot hold horse stance for 30 mins with perfect form, i collapse. but its possible and i will go past 30 mins, it wont be long.

    i have not reached the levels of the master samurai yet. your words are true and just.

    but i have a philosophy,

    "when you stop feeding the roots, the branches fall weak."

    the abbot monk at my temple said to me before, "i have passed that, i do not practice that anymore"

    i said to him, "so how will that improve you"

    he replied, "it dosent i just dont need it anymore"

    i didnt reply back to that, but i thought something. never stop the basics, shifu always tells me to practice the basics, he does the basics also still, i hope he dosent stop using the basics like the abbot.

  9. EmptyForceOfChi Banned Banned

    comparing samurai martial arts to shaolin monks,

    the samurai arts come from shaolin, all japanese martial arts and weapons come from early chinese versions.

    karate even comes from shaolin, as does ninjutsu etc.

  10. nameless Registered Senior Member

    First, I like your 'heart'! Your passion! Your, dare I say it, youthful vigor! Yes!

    Were I questioned as the abbot, I would have replied that 'improvement' is no longer necessary.
  11. EmptyForceOfChi Banned Banned

    how can one become perfect while still alive,

    always improve.

  12. cole grey Hi Valued Senior Member

    I have been and am highly disciplined in my art, and not in other areas - surely that makes sense.
    I want to learn about discipline, not be given examples of discipline. I want to know where discipline is found when you have found no appropriate situation for a master/disciple relationship.

    I hate to say it, but your ego sounds pretty fragile, maybe you should just chill out. Many patient listeners and a few talkers is the norm in any group discussion, whether on a forum or not.
  13. phlogistician Banned Banned

    And all of that comes from fucking yoga.
  14. EmptyForceOfChi Banned Banned

    yeah from india, but it wasnt a fighting style untill it became "shaolin", before it was for health reasons and not for combat.

    why hostile about it?

  15. water the sea Registered Senior Member


    I don't think discipline can be *found*. Discipline can be developed, as a matter of skill.

    If you are into the Buddhist approach, then I'd suggest this series of talks on the four bases of success, the four iddhipadas, here by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

    Each of them is about 45 minutes long, and there are five of them -- and I understand this may sound like a tedious suggestion.

    I found a lot of useful things about discipline there, the way it is interconnected with our life as a whole.
  16. perplexity Banned Banned

    Discipline is found initially in family life, the education of children, and from that the eventual attitude is conditioned.

    Does no appropriate situation mean nobody to trust and respect enough?

    ----- RH.
  17. BLASTOFF Registered Senior Member

    EmptyForceofChi/ do you beleave that the ninja were assassins throught there life/
    my master told me that this may have been, but no matter what they were they were well trained in martial art, just like the samurai they used there surrounding's as weapon's, my master was master Ho Chi Wan, i to teach in my spare time, i find passing on my knowledge to others i am keeping my masters training and his memory alive.
  18. nameless Registered Senior Member

    Rhetorical question?
    One dilligently seeks 'Truth'. There 'appears' to be room for 'improvement'. One never finds Truth.
    One becomes Truth.
    Self-'improvement' no longer has any meaning.
    Bye the bye, the Truth that one 'becomes' is not something 'imbibed' or 'won' from 'out there' somewhere, it is and has always been who we are. Trimming away the 'false', by dilligently persuing Truth will always lead to a dead end. We can improve our speed, our stamina, our knowledge, etc.. but there is always someone better at these external games, and discipline cannot go beyond a certain point in our 'journey'. The perfecting of 'body' is but a metaphoric reflection of our inner perfecting. Ultimately, all the physical stuff is vanity and 'sequins', not who you really 'Are'. Once one realizes Self, playing with the 'sequins' becomes irrelevent, or a 'meaningless' pastime for self amusement.

    Re; discipline... Perhaps 'discipline' = vanity? All back to the 'free will' thing.

    Actually, my 'ego' is quite the monstrous size and constantly needs to be guarded and 'trimmed'. I don't 'need' the feedback for ego. It makes no difference to ego if all this great work that i am offering is not finding suitable 'ears'. (Like I said, I enjoyed the opportunity to clarify my own thoughts. That in itself is sufficient reason to have spent the time.) I don't want to be wasting my time here, though, which could be better utilized elsewhere. Nothing too difficult to understand. I'm sure that I am not the only one feeling like this, I just verbalised is all. If my kids didnt want the dinner I made, the wolves would. No prob!
    That only tells me that your 'discipline' is an 'overlay' and does not come from within, is not 'who you are'. If it were, it would apply 'across the board' in your life.
    On the other hand, 'discipline' (or a reasonable facsimile) as a 'situational' tool is most helpful in getting through life...
  19. cole grey Hi Valued Senior Member

    I follow through on commitment, and with some of the commitments i have made discipline is necessary.
    Unfortunately, because I always follow through, I do not make commitments I might not keep, therefore I make no commitment to becoming completely tuned in my physical self.
    How does one become disciplined other than by making a commitment? Can you?
    I am not going to commit to becoming a samurai or ninja, because I am not sure i will follow through with the incredible amount of training you must go through - I do know however that if i were to make a commitment to something like that, my physical manifestation would become such that my greatest potential could be realized. Perhaps that idea of me is not the real me.
    Nameless, i think you have a very concrete view of things, which implies a lack of understanding - although it is quite possible that it is just your words that make it seem that way. A 400 pound classical pianist who is a master of the piano has discipline there and not in the refrigerator - it takes discipline to get to that level, love of the piano and external pressure is not enough to carry a person to that level.
  20. phlogistician Banned Banned

    'The longest journey starts with a single step.'
  21. john smith Tongue in cheek Registered Senior Member


    Sounds like my yoga class too me!

    EXACTLY like infact, you would make a good swami!!

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  22. EmptyForceOfChi Banned Banned


    i like that you teach for that reason,

    yeah the ninja were assassins, they were masters of the shadows, i learn ninjutsu and ninpo. the ninja were very skilled, not only in the martial arts, but in the land, they were deadly a samurais worst nightmare, living by no honour or rules, a secret ninja code of clan loyalty is the only rule they go by.

    a ninja head to head with a samurai, in clear day time face to face sword to sword. the ninja would lose. the samurai would kill him,

    but a fight in the darkness, where the samurai sleeps, the ninja will be lurking int he shadows waiting for the right momment to kill, the ninja would poison food, set traps, throw shuriken with good accuracy. they would slit the throats of the enemy, while they were sleeping, poison the water supply,

    most ninja top assassins worked in clans in secret to fight oppression of warlords and emporers, they were not usually soldiers for hire, (soemtimes they were). usually they were farmers and local people, who train themselves in secret, like the shaolin were mere farmers to begin with, using farming tools and training with them for combat etc. shaolin means forest farmer young wood, farmer, land tender etc.

    the ninja learn alot from a young age, they were the best assassons in that time period, i will gather some info about what a full ninja must learn (be supprised with certainf actors)/

  23. EmptyForceOfChi Banned Banned

    i agree with nameless about this,

    "discipline" cannot be just an overlay, if you are disciplined in martial arts, but not in every other area of your life, then you are not disciplined, you just repect the art.

    to be disciplined with yourself, is to be disciplined with all.


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