sandy: answer these claims against Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Kadark, Jun 27, 2007.

  1. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    The Old Testiment was written at the behest of Alexander the Great in Alexandria. It was written and compiled by men. And it was written with a very specific audience, an audience that could relate to the violence. It was a violent time and these practices were not uncommon to many different peoples of the region.
    God talks to people in a language they can understand, and he does so at many different levels. All of us are not able to understand God in his true form. But we can understand pieces. Let me ask you what exists in a place without time and without space? God exists there and here. So how can we truely comprehend God?
    Second, God has spoken to man through many religions and many times. And often, man has corrupted the message for power. It is an inherent weakness of man. But the corruption of man does not negate the value of religion or the truth of God.
     
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  3. scorpius a realist Valued Senior Member

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    are you sure its not YOU who is making up answers and not god??

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    nothing !! theres no such place.
    did she told you that,or did you made that up?
    how do you comprehend something you IMAGINE to be what you want it to be?
    they thought just like you that god is speaking to them,while they just like you made up what they wanted god to be..
    it seems that it was man who INVENTED gods
    www.godchecker.com

    IF there was one TRUE god then ALL the people in the world would SHARE exactly the same vision of IT dont you think???
     
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  5. cole grey Hi Valued Senior Member

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    I make my decision to try to follow christ - but I don't pretend I have seen God directly - maybe someday I'll get to that point. It has only been twenty years, or so, that i have really been keeping my eyes open.

    Also - some people submit their thinking and others think whatever they think, and don't try to pretend otherwise. I am the latter, and God certainly doesn't need us to be robots or God would have made us that in the first place. I don't understand why this blatantly obvious concept is so hard for people to grasp.

    Realities -
    1. God did not make everything perfectly clear, or humanity wouldn't be this confused.
    2. God did not make us robots, or we would not be so volitional.
    3. Doubt mixes together with belief to make faith. Knowledge is not faith.
    4. God made it all that way, so it must be ok with God.


    P.S.
    yorda said - "this is so stupid, many holy people in the bible performed magic, moses for example when he split the red sea with his magic staff."

    Using the power of God to perform miracles would not be classified as sorcery. As to your example, Moses was instructed to do certain things a certain way (quite possibly to show that it was God's power, and not Moses that was performing the miracles.) When Moses did things his way (perhaps giving his followwers the idea that he was capable of miracles), God still delivered water to the people but said Moses would never enter the promised land. Perhaps that points to some of the difference between sorcery and miracles.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2007
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  7. Adstar Valued Senior Member

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    I have not seen God either.



    Probably when you die. But it is possible we will see him before then.



    Everyone thinks whatever they think. But some know their thinking is not 100% reliable they prefer to be guided but they still think a lot.



    We are not robots and will never be. God wants us to think and reason with Him but in the end He wants us to trust Him and that is what faith is. Trust in God.



    God made everything Good. the reason why we are the way we are now is because we where sabotaged by satan.



    Doubt denys faith, Doubt shows the lack of trust. But i agree knowledge is not faith either.



    As we are now is not the way God made us. We are in a faulty state of being. This has been tolerated by God because what has been made faulty can be fixed it can be redeemed.



    LOL I did not even bother answering yorda.
    Moses and his Magic staff

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    I think that is funny. See thats my thinking.

    But i know it is blasphemous towards God to say that Moses used a magic staff because that is saying that Moses did the signs using magicks. It's like saying Moses did it by the power of satan. Attributing the Works of God to some ungodly source is not an advisable thing to be doing.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  8. SnakeLord snakeystew.com Valued Senior Member

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    1) Obviously he did not make satan 'good'.

    2) Obviously god was sleeping the day satan broke into the garden of eden and sabotaged man that had no understanding of good or evil.
     
  9. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Emperical evidence of God exists, but there is no smoking gun. There is more emperical evidence to support God's existence than not. What concerns me about some positions is that in order to accept the position one has to ignore inconvenient information. Some are very good at it. Finding the evidence for God is a path that must be self iniated and honest. That is why the ancient mystery schools developed and continue to this day.
     
  10. SnakeLord snakeystew.com Valued Senior Member

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    Such as? Lol..
     
  11. cole grey Hi Valued Senior Member

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    Admitted.

    There is obviously something more complex happening here - what did God owe satan that he has to let him run around wreaking havoc? This isn't explained away by saying God wanted it a different way, if God let it all go down like this. My opinion is that there must be a good reason, and i can think of a few possibilities - but I am NOT going to pretend the "satan did it," explanation is complete in itself, as Adstar does above.
     
  12. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    Why is it pride to actually object when some people take the mere words of men, the Bible, and equal them to the actual words of God?
     
  13. jayleew Who Cares Valued Senior Member

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    Wow! You would not see me try to teach/preach/trash Calculus without first learning Calculus.

    To those who are emphatically trashing the teachings of the Bible because they don't understand it, I suggest you become knowledgable in the teachings of the Bible if you want to trash it the right way.

    I don't particularly believe in God, but I do understand scriptures.

    God meant exactly what is told in Dueteronomy. This was a time period where God kept himself to only the "holy" elected. God had zero tolerance for sin and still does. The difference between that time and now is Jesus Christ died for all sin, he was put to death so that no one would have to pay that price of death any longer. After the supposed rapture occurs, the door will be shut and the old law will be restored. God played God back then, and will again according to the Bible.

    It's a hard pill to swallow for some Christians, but the Bible says that God is a jealous God and will not stand for sin...he will destroy all sin in the end, just as God was ruthlessly just in the past concerning sin. At least that is what the Bible says.

    Now this may seem inhumane, but if you were a perfect person, would that not be the standard? I mean if a rose bush is sickly, you cut away the bad so the good can grow.

    It makes sense to me, but I am agnostic concerning the existence of God.
     
  14. SnakeLord snakeystew.com Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe I should point out that everyone still dies?
     
  15. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    *************
    M*W: I agree with you. That would be like me teaching about the evils of earth science! I have always said that I don't teach atheism. That's not my intent. I study the history and theology of christianity, and that is the foci from what I teach. Embracing atheism comes much later. As with teaching any subject, you have to start with the basics and advance from there. The advantage of being an atheist is that religion can be observed from a rational standpoint.
     
  16. Cortex_Colossus Banned Banned

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    God may take whomever He decides. It only leads to either evil actions or insanity if one were to deny God and decide on a reality without God. A reality without God is a reality of majority opinions, therefore humans become meaningless objects in one's reality. Evil is therefore equivalent to good and actions of evil can be committed without fear or conscience. Fearlessness is dangerous in a reality without God because good and evil can no longer exist. Laws and rules become meaningless in a reality without God because humans become nothing more than objects and any solution to one's problem will be carried out according to whatever one deems a necessity of survival, including murder. Only God has the right to take a life. In the event where taking a life is deemed absolutely necessary and without being perceived as evil, which would be in the reality of God as opposed to without, then taking a life becomes God's decision through oneself as an instrument.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2007
  17. jayleew Who Cares Valued Senior Member

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    Not sure what you meant by this...but, death is an important part of life for Chrisitians as it is the mode of transportation to the afterlife where they do not have earthly bodies.

    For me, as I grew away from my belief in God, I was surprised to find that I do not fear death. If this is all we have, then that's okay with me. I mean there is enough pain in the world to want to leave, and I am living the best life I can so the time I get is enough for me. I hope to find the truth before I die though...about God's existence.

    I can't embrace athieism because humanity is flawed and it is impossible to prove or disprove the existence of an invisible god with impirical evidence. So, let's move on. (talking to some others who still "debate")
     
  18. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Ok lets forget about proof for a second. Taking in account your knowledge of how the universe works, how likely is it that an invisible God exists ?
    It contradicts reality.
     
  19. Wisdom_Seeker Speaker of my truth Valued Senior Member

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    Actually, it contradicts your reality, but as a matter of fact, there are perspectives as there are people on Earth; from my perspective, it is very different, and from the perspective of a Buddha or a Bodhisattva, well, it is not rational for you, but a vivid reality for them.
     
  20. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Fine, it contradicts my reality..
    And this is exactly why claims like God have to be supported with proof.
    Unless, theists dont care about being taken seriously. I have no problem with that.
     
  21. jayleew Who Cares Valued Senior Member

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    That's just it, I dont have much knowledge of how the universe works...and frankly, no one really does completely understand the universe.

    As far as considering the existence of something unprovable, it's just pointless and foolish to babble on about without impirical evidence.

    Until proven folks, a god does not exist and the only one who can prove a god's existence, is a god. The spiritual writings are the hope of something greater than the natural laws...something that our alleged ancenstors experienced. If they were truth, it would be life changing stuff.

    If I could understand a god, why the heck would I want to be subserviant to it?

    It's like someone telling you that pigs do fly cause it's in a book. The idea is absurd in the face of evidence. The difference here is that: 1) I would expect a god to be beyond understanding. 2) The scriptures are based on factual events (embellished myths) vs. a tall tale (complete imagination).

    What do you all think from your research? Can we establish the scriptures as more myth than tall tale?

    The problem I have with God is that it hinders all supposed children to not show itself. So, I can either be disappointed in God or I can just simply discredit God's existence. There is only one logical choice for me.

    Or is having hope in God's existence a good thing and worth holding on to?
     
  22. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Where/what is Gods niche ? There isnt one.
     
  23. jayleew Who Cares Valued Senior Member

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    Satan was made good. God was away the day of the fall. But, if you step into Christian land for a moment I think it may run deeper:

    If you were God and created something that has intelligence beyond a monkey and had your likeness instead of the lesser little animated frogs and squirrels, and wanted it to have free will, do you keep the choice to do evil from them knowing the damage it will cause?

    Do you suppose that God knew what he was doing and purposefully put the tree of knowledge in the garden...knowing that Adam and Eve would take the fruit? If God is all knowing, he must have known they would eat from the tree.

    I mean it's like our own children. We lay a piece of candy on the floor and tell them not to eat it...knowing full well what is going to happen when we get back from the store...especially when uncle Ted who is babysitting them tells them it's okay to eat the candy.

    I propose that this was all an elaborate scheme to create man that has free will. I can't think of another way to do it. Satan was a player, and played his part...but, he did have a choice to not play the part. No one understood God, and Satan was caught up in himself.

    The day God put the tree in the garden is the day free will was unleashed for all creation.

    How would you fix the problem without starting over?

    Ok, now back to the real world...
     

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