# SciContest! Why can't matter be made of photons?

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by BenTheMan, Aug 11, 2008.

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1. ### VkothiiBannedBanned

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So a question remains about electrons and probability waves like Schrodinger's one: does a single electron occupy both spin states in a lone orbital, then if another electron pairs up they align their spins, otherwise the wavefunction describes what exactly?

I'd say they do, a hydrogen atom has a single electron that allows itself to occupy the 1s orbital with both spins which would be a more relaxed or resonant state. Schrodinger's time-dependent probability wave dynamics, finds electrons in both states in delocalised orbitals too, I guess.

And that is somehow connected to photon emission, which we know is because of an electron losing momentum by finding a lower level of resonance, but spin is conserved.

Last edited: Aug 13, 2008

3. ### VernRegistered Senior Member

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An advocate of photon theory could say that are sequential, happening one after the other. We see one state or the other depending upon where in the pattern we catch it.

5. ### EnmosValued Senior Member

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Vern, where is your avatar ?

7. ### AlphaNumericFully ionizedRegistered Senior Member

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No, it does't. Virtual means it's off shell and do doesn't obey $E^{2}=m^{2}+p^{2}$

Yet another case of you pretending to know something you don't.

8. ### VernRegistered Senior Member

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I never took the time to find out the requirements since I'm usually sent to the dungeon as soon as I advocate something

If I survive awhile here, I'll make one.

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10. ### ReikuBannedBanned

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In the Copenhagen Interpretation, the interpretation i take hold of as being the true definition of reality, states that there is evidence that such an occurance (as the collapse), happens. It's the fact we only come to observe a pointlike particle, and therefore, is evident if matter is in a wave function of possibilities, only one ever emerges, as it atentively searches throughout the infinite amount of them.

11. ### ReikuBannedBanned

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Any wave function can overlap. This is the nature of superpositioning, and because of this, an electron will have some undefined property(s), until a collapse occurs. A single electron can occupy a level of energy in an atom, so long as another electron does not: Take the same value of spin in, the same level of quantum energy.

12. ### YordaRegistered Senior Member

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The question is invalid because matter CAN be made of photons.

13. ### ReikuBannedBanned

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It is invalid. You are right Yorda.

14. ### John J. BannanRegistered Senior Member

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"The W and Z bosons decay to fermion-antifermion pairs." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W_and_Z_bosons
Now, what happens when a fermion and anitfermion collide?

15. ### AlphaNumericFully ionizedRegistered Senior Member

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Where? And how is it illogical, it's the definition of a 'virtual particle'.

In the case of the W bosons nothing, because the fermion is not the antimatter partner of the antifermion. Such as an electron and an antineutrino from a W-.

16. ### ReikuBannedBanned

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Oh, it's a post in physics.

17. ### VernRegistered Senior Member

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Looks like my Avatar worked. It is a neutron as a shell structure comprised of photon shells. Hope it is allowed.

18. ### ReikuBannedBanned

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Ofcourse it is Vern

19. ### Mike HonchoShut up and calculateRegistered Senior Member

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Ok, I've come up with the exact answer that Ben is fishing for in this witch hunt he calls a Contest.

Matter cannot be made up of photons because if it were it would contradict mainstream QED.

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21. ### VernRegistered Senior Member

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Yes it would Mike, but re-read the OP. There's nothing there that says the opposing view must conform to existing mainstream theory.

22. ### ReikuBannedBanned

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Mike will learn the basics of quantum mechanics. He has a hidden passion for it, so i have great expectations for him.

23. ### VernRegistered Senior Member

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I'm surprised no one mentioned Gravity as a problem with a photon construct for the universe. I guess everyone knows that photons do attract each other gravitationally. Most leave it at that.
But there's a few like this guy who goes into special detail with all the math.

There's another way to get gravity out of a photon-only universe that uses a universal saturation constant of space that splits between Planck's constant and gravity. This one could be experimentally varified by showing that the value of Planck's constant is reduced in a strong gravitational field. Dr Robert Kemp of Hughes Aircraft explains that. When Kemp writes of EMF he means voltage over time, not just voltage.

Last edited: Aug 13, 2008