Scientists discover that atheists might not exist, and that’s not a joke

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Jan Ardena, Apr 8, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. river

    Messages:
    17,307
    How so ?
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,396
    ///
    1st, someone claimed a reason is required & you claim it is a stance & those are such which should be asked how so.

    Even so : There is a god & there is not a god are stances which require reason(s). I do not know whether there is a god is obviously not a stance.
    The god of the Christian bible cannot exist (stance) because it is too contradictory (reason). Again, I do not know is not a stance.

    Thru most of history, the vast majority of humans never heard of the jewish god, the moslem god or the christian god. They had no reason to believe in any of them & they certainly needed no reason to not believe.
    Even recently in the USA, some children of atheists were never told about gods & needed no reason to not believe. Then when they eventually encountered theists & were told about god(s), they yet needed no reason to not believe but would have needed a reason to begin believing.
    IF Bigfoot is someday proven to exist, I will have reason to believe. Until then I have no reason to believe it & I need no reason to not believe it.
    Not believing is the natural default until we have reason enough to believe something.

    Tragicly, some people believe when they do have good reasons to not believe. 1 example being captured or conquered people taking the religion of their conquerors.

    <>
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. river

    Messages:
    17,307
    I see your point .

    Here is the thing though , once you get through all the rhetoric from both sides , science and religion , the bottom line is about intelligence in all living beings .
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,359
    Once an idea is posited, I think one automatically puts in place reasons to support the position one takes, whether to believe it or not. Without the idea in the first place, though, the person has no position on it that requires reason.
    I.e. until I suggest the existence of Latugah the warrior Prince of Ximene IIa, you have no reason to believe or not. But now the idea of his existence has been posited, you will either believe or not believe - and either of those positions, I would argue, would be internally reasoned... even if that reason is "it's made up", or "I have no evidence" etc.

    So I would say that any atheist who is aware of the issue of God's existence will have a reason. In the absence of that awareness (e.g. a baby), the absence of belief would be unreasoned.
     
    Yazata likes this.
  8. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,359
    I disagree. If there are two doors in front of you, one "God exists", the other "God does not exist", then walking through either door is taking a position. But standing your ground and not walking through either is also a position.
    Not knowing whether or not there is a god is actually the reason for most people to take that latter position: why do they not believe that God exists, nor believe that God does not exist? For most it is because they lack knowledge one way or the other.
    Sure, but not believing is not the same as believing in the opposite. Not believing that God exists is not the same as believing that God does not exist.
    And all three of those (belief in existence, belief in non-existence, no belief) are all positions that require reason once the notion of the thing's existence is touted. In my experience the reason for no belief is almost always the lack of knowledge.
     
    Yazata likes this.
  9. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,994
    deleted.
     
  10. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,396
    ///
    I am not convinced of that. I cannot see being exposed to an idea making it necessary to have a reason to not believe it.
    If we say the reason I do not believe in X is that I never heard or thought of X, seems quite silly to me. Anything I have heard or thought of yet do not believe, the best I can come up with is that I am not convinced & calling that a reason seems to be desperately clinging to the reason notion. Possibly except for the very few things I changed my mind on but those yet come down to the basic fact that I am simply not convinced.
    May as well say the reason I do not believe X is that I cannot believe X & the reason I cannot believe X is that I have no reason to believe X. Now ask me why I have no reason to believe X.
    I see that you often apply reason here. I do not know about elsewhere. If your thinking is similar enough to mine, perhaps you are a bit stuck on it & cannot see any exceptions.
    We should not be asked why do you not believe unless it concerns well established fact.

    <>
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
  11. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,396
    ///
    I often do not choose any of 2 or more options simply because I am not convinced to choose any or I simply do not care for any & that is not necessarily taking a position.
    In my experience, it always come down to being convinced or not being convinced. Being convinced involves reason(s). Not being convinced sometimes involves reason but not necessarily.
    There are 3 doors : God exists, God does not exist & I do not know. If I go thru the 3rd door, I am simply going with the 1 which applies to me. I probably would simply not participate in such silliness. Why would I not? Simply because that is the way I am & I did not decide to be that way.
    If I am convinced of something, I must believe it. If I am not convinced, I cannot believe it.
    Will there be omelets at the pot luck breakfast? I do not know. I simply do not know.
    Is there life on other planets? I simply do not know & that is not a position.

    <>
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
  12. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,359
    Yet we are asked about belief in God rather frequently, are we not?
    All of the above boils down to the reason being lack of knowledge. If one has never heard or thought of X then of course one lacks belief and, as said, this is an unreasoned lack. But as soon as someone asks: do you believe X then you either will or will not at that point. And that will not be unreasoned, unless you choose randomly, and I'm not sure a human can truly answer randomly. Note that "not believing X" is not the same as "believing not-X".
    But if one has considered it then not choosing is itself a position. That is my view.
    I think not being convinced always involves reasons. There are reasons why the information / evidence is not convincing, even if "gut feel". I just don't see that we can do anything without reason. Boredom. Apathy. For a laugh. Low risk for high reward. Seems to make sense. All these are possible reasons.
    But there are reasons you consider it silly. And then there are reasons why you don't participate in such silliness.
    I agree. But there are reasons one is not convinced.
    Both of these examples are positions. You are saying a considerable amount about your position by saying "I don't know". You are saying that you can not make a choice because of a lack of knowledge. In my book that is very much a position.

    But if we must agree to disagree then so be it.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  13. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,502
    Theists claim many things and yet not one claim is delivered with supporting evidence.
    Talking in tounges I find but one of the many examples of their strange thinking.
    They indulge in gibberish and the claim this performance is evidence of the holy spirit.
    Well sure it is if they say so.
    I saw a show, well I was doing other things so I am slim on detail, where they spoke about a disease in mice that caused them to get fearless and somewhat attracted to cats such that cats would eat them.
    The bacteria life cycle went from living in the brain of the mouse causing it to become "stupid" then moving into a cats poo which was the eaten by a mouse who continued the cycle.
    And it hit me...something like that must happen to theists. Perhaps there is some germ in their brain that causes them to surrender reason...I think we should check the holy water or maybe the prayer books to find what causes reason to shut down in the theist.
    But I was thinking today if not for religion we would have few ways to manage the masses...imagine if theists could actually think...would they be content to accept less of the economic pie.
    Anyways I dont give a ratz.
    Alex
     
  14. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,396
    A YouTube comment :
    David Poirier2 years ago
    I think theists expect atheists to be ashamed and embarrassed when they meet their divine creator. But honestly, assuming God turned out to be real and I was wrong all along, I will still profess that my expectation that there would be no afterlife was perfectly reasonable. I was given absolutely nothing to go on. If I had no reason to believe in God, I can't be blamed for refusing to believe. And remember that the fact alone that I will eventually be proven wrong does not count as a reason to believe I am wrong. I will not take action preemptively to the reason for taking it. Prove me wrong now and I will change my mind immediately. If God waits until it is too late to reveal himself, well that's God's f**k-up, not mine. God doesn't get to complain that I didn't become his friend if he's been hiding in a cave my whole life. He needs to come out and shake my hand and introduce himself. That's how relationships work.

    <>
     
  15. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,502
    Well thats what theists believe in effect happens in that they think God talks to them in such a way they perceive it as real.
    And preserve a confidence that it can only be right.
    That the way it is..some individuals need it I guess.
    I am going to focus on the good side which would have a faith in a God producing positive results like curing drug adiction ...Well not curing it but used by someone to pull through a difficult point in life and when they pull thru they see their prayers as answered and so they are in Gods debt sortta.
    Alex
     
  16. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,396
    Somebody Touched Me Recorded by the Stanley Brothers
    Written by Leon Bowles and Tim Frye

    G
    While I was praying (somebody touched me)
    C G
    While I was praying (somebody touched me)

    While I was praying (somebody touched me)
    D7 G
    Must've been the hand of the Lord


    Glory glory glory somebody touched me
    C G
    Glory glory glory somebody touched me

    Glory glory glory somebody touched me
    D7 G
    Must've been the hand of the Lord


    While I was singing (somebody touched me)
    C G
    While I was singing (somebody touched me)

    While I was singing (somebody touched me)
    D7 G
    Must've been the hand of the Lord

    Repeat #2


    While I was preaching (somebody touched me)
    C G
    While I was preaching (somebody touched me)

    While I was preaching (somebody touched me)
    D7 G
    Must've been the hand of the Lord

    Repeat #2 x2
     
  17. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,077
    He pulls out the lost sock

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  18. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,396
    ///
    Regardless of what theists think or believe, it has not happened to me or the person I quoted or many others.

    <>
     
  19. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,396
    ///
    Lost socks go to a parallel universe.

    <>
     
  20. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,077
    Do you think the IS lives there and is only a visitor here?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  21. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,396
    ///
    I keep it there.

    <>
     
  22. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,396
    There is a 399 year old guru in a cave near the peak of a mountain in the Himalayas. Thru his mystic powers, he is aware there is Jon Johnson, an ordinary man in the USA with a troubled life. If Jon would go to him, the guru would help to greatly improve his life. Inexplicably, the guru will not use his mystic power to contact Jon & make him aware of the guru. Jon must 1st choose to go to the guru & he must choose the correct mountain. Why does Jon not go to the guru?

    <>
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018
  23. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,396
    ///

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page