Sciforums religion survey 2014

Discussion in 'Religion' started by James R, Dec 21, 2014.

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What do you believe? (Select all that apply.)

Poll closed Jan 11, 2015.
  1. I don't believe in God now, and I never did.

    12 vote(s)
    26.1%
  2. I don't believe in God now, but I used to.

    15 vote(s)
    32.6%
  3. I believe in God now, but in the past I did not.

    4 vote(s)
    8.7%
  4. I believe in God now, and always have.

    5 vote(s)
    10.9%
  5. I have no opinion on God/do not wish to select one of the above options.

    6 vote(s)
    13.0%
  6. I don't believe in God, but I believe there is a higher power, life force or similar.

    4 vote(s)
    8.7%
  7. I don't regard myself as religious, but I am a spiritual person.

    7 vote(s)
    15.2%
  8. I believe that human beings have a soul or life force which remains after the death of the body.

    5 vote(s)
    10.9%
  9. I believe in reincarnation.

    4 vote(s)
    8.7%
  10. I describe myself as a follower of a recognised religion.

    3 vote(s)
    6.5%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Photizo Ambassador/Envoy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,519
    False.
    "He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;"
     
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  3. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,883
    Can you include the book/chapter and verse?
     
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  5. Blue Eyes Registered Member

    Messages:
    15
    Galatians 2:16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ.
    Ephesians 2:8-10 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith
    Romans 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved.

    dam, faith trumps reality every time
     
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  7. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,942
    Yeah, who wants reality?
     
  8. Blue Eyes Registered Member

    Messages:
    15
    in a world full of natural born liars, the Christian god isn't any more real now then he was before someone had to tell me all about him.
     
  9. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,942
    Agreed.
     
  10. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,883
    I think Paul(Saul) was a nutcase. The only books i read(I have read all of Paul's crap) in the New Testament is Luke,Mark and John.
     
  11. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,883
    We are not "natural born liars", the world transforms most of us into liars over time.
     
  12. Blue Eyes Registered Member

    Messages:
    15
    Why? when It all originates from Paul's nutty revelation anyway.

    you might feel differently about it when your fifty
     
  13. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,883
    What originates from Paul's "revelation"?

    Paul's teachings never made sense to me, it was contradictory, even though he had the gospels he still screwed up, he was an idiot fruitcake.
     
  14. Photizo Ambassador/Envoy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,519
    You didn't answer his question. He was asking for chapter and verse of the passage I quoted.
     
  15. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,199
    Paul's position makes most sense when it is realized he doesn't portray Christ as the God-Man known as Jesus, but only as a spirit. While bible translations often interchange the words Christ with Jesus etc, the pure Paul only refers to a Christ as a spiritual form. A Christ as a man sacrificed is a Gospel position. Paul never saw Jesus as an actual historical figure, that's why his writings do not support Gospel mythology. God as the man Jesus would be blasphemy to Paul.
     
  16. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,199
    If true then I don't need to believe in Jesus or God - that's fine with me. But it does mean that the bible verse John 3:15 - "so that everyone who believes in him will have eternal life", is highly misleading since it heavily implies THE ONLY WAY is to believe in Jesus. The entire Baptist movement is based on this position.
     
  17. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,883
    Paul waffled on about churches more than any other "apostle" by far, church=religion. Matthew did mention it too, in fact his writings are used as the foundation of the roman catholic church. Matthew i do not subscribe to either. Luke,Mark and John out of the new testament only for me.
     
  18. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,199
    Remember that Mark came first and is the simplest, and is primarily a collection of the popular myths of the time. Mathew is simply a copy of Mark some 10 years later but highly enhanced so it would sell better. Luke and John also borrowed heavily from Mark.

    Meanwhile Paul's letters and stuff was being written on a parallel track - geographically separate as well.

    Paul pushed the spiritual perspective, while other fans liked the bloody crucifixion narrative, and of course there is meant to be only 1 god.

    Moving on some 300 years later when Christianity is about to really take-off and the religion makers are faced with a real political dilemma. They are being hugely criticized by pushing a seemingly polytheistic version of the Abrahamic god and people were not happy. So all the leaders met in conference and they invented the horrible botch-up known as the trinity. Paul's spirit concept, the Jesus son concept, combined with the Abraham god concept. A mess of a religion that even today people still scratch their heads at the complex nonsense.

    Islam in contrast kept the faith and stayed with the more understandable and attractive one god concept with their founder as a special prophet rather than a far fetched god-man. No wonder Islam is so popular.
     
  19. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,883
    I know the history, and I know the writings, they do not make sense... Jesus came with a message, period. Paul and Matt created Christianity, at its most basic level root level, which resulted in the opposite of what Jesus primarily preached... the crusaders must of all been walking around with big planks in their eyes.
     
  20. Photizo Ambassador/Envoy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,519
    Hi, Cris,

    Paul's comment is part of a larger argument extending over the course of a number of chapters leading the reader to (hopefully) acknowledge that he (the reader) is incapable of producing the means necessary to achieve immortality on his own. For that, he needs Jesus. Upon reaching that point, Paul then goes on to explain all that comes as a result. I quoted it to you to show that it is theoretically possible for a Human Being in God's 'economy' to attain immortality. That it does not happen to be you should be evident on its face. There was a Human Being Who DID accomplish what the statement I quoted to you requires. What is required of you to attain what you say you seek (Immortality) is not the accomplishment of that task, but the honesty to admit you can't....that you need Someone else to accomplish it for you. For such honesty, Immortality is granted as a gift. On paper, quite an easy thing; in practice, an insurmountable barrier for which even that God's help is required.
     
  21. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,196
    I don't really get what's in contention here. Yes, religions change over time. So what?
     
  22. Amazing Moves Registered Member

    Messages:
    11
    How do you go about contacting them?
     
  23. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,199
    That simply confirms my position that it isn't sufficient to just be good but that a belief in Jesus is a MANDATORY requirement. We can also take this further to assert that it is the ONLY requirement since someone who has been evil all their life can achieve immortality at his moment of death if he genuinely asks Jesus for forgiveness as his last breath. And in contrast a thoroughly good person cannot achieve immortality if he does not believe in Jesus or ever asks him for forgiveness. That is the entire and critical implication/assertion of John 3:15 - and I don't see that you have counteracted that.

    But you added "For that, he needs Jesus" which negates the claim that immortality is achievable WITHOUT a belief in Jesus.

    I'm not sure what you mean by that.

    Who did you have in mind? A real human and not a god-man, right? And how would you know if they have achieved immortality?

    I understand the theological concept of immortality through the duality concept, and the rules you state are specific to the dogma you have chosen here. But an essential part of that dogma is the necessity to believe in Jesus and I don't see you have excluded that.
     

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