Self Confidence = The Key to Everything...

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Cactus Jack, Jun 20, 2002.

  1. Cactus Jack Death Knight of Northrend Registered Senior Member

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    816
    Now, I was wondering do you think that's true? Don't you have to be at peace with yourself before you can truly be happy? Also don't you need to be at peace with yourself before you can truly be comfortable with others, doing activities and appreciating your achievements? I feel it is so and that is why I am striving for some form of steady self-confidence.

    If I may borrow Goofyfish's quote:

    Greater in battle than the man who
    would conquer a thousand-thousand men,
    is he who would conquer just one--
    himself.

    -Dhammapad, 8, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
     
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  3. Adam §Þ@ç€ MØnk€¥ Registered Senior Member

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    Confidence and ability are required. Confidence without ability leads to trouble. And remember that humility and confidence are not mutually exclusive.
     
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  5. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

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    8,616
    Agreed. Confidence without ability leads to those who look foolish and get themselves into trouble. A good example of that is a mountain climber in the news a little while back who had to be rescued. He had confidence but lacked the ability to back it.

    Humility is something to truely be desired. You can be quietly confident and able but if you can also have humility or toned down hubris you are a truely worthy individual. With some the confidence turns to boastfulness and I dislike that in people. Just because you can do something well does not mean you have to advertise it. Those who go quietly on their way, with ability, are the ones who are the suprises to those who engage their mouth without consideration of others.

    My opinion...
     
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  7. Tyler Registered Senior Member

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    4,888
    Confidence without ability leads to Nelson.



    Jarrod, confidence will always be the key to doing good. I question my own ability in many classes at school yet with a high confidence in class and some acting skills I'm able to easily get an A. Confidence isn't everything, but it can be damn close to it.
     
  8. *stRgrL* Kicks ass Valued Senior Member

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    2,495
    Yes, I believe that without inner-peace, you will never experience happiness. Temporary joy is all I have ever known. It would be nice to be truly happy though

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  9. ~The_Chosen~ Registered Senior Member

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    1,047
    You need confidence with women also.

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    Woman don't want another pussy, because they alread have one!

    Sorry if I'm tangent to the topic...

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  10. bbcboy Recovering christian Registered Senior Member

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    1,104
    I agree with all of the above. I just wonder what you guys feel constitutes true happiness and whether you mean constant happiness. I feel that I am a truly happy person these days and I do have a lot of confidence in my general abilities.

    That said I am not constantly happy and I have off days and bad days. I suppose the secret is the belief (Confidence) that they too will pass and the average emotion I will have is happiness.

    It comes in many ways and from many people who interact with me in a way which shows me why they're important to me and more pertinently why I'm important to them.

    *stRgrL*
    The temporary joys you speak of are what I mean. It's not about making them permanent, maybe it's more to do with stretching them so that they meet. Am I clear? I hope so

    Get happy peeps, you're a long fuckin time dead

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  11. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    23,049
    ah yes
    temporary happyness

    thats all i seem to have to

    well hopefully that will change

    maybe the happy pills and the shrink will work

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  12. ubermich amnesiac . . . Registered Senior Member

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    235
    happiness is a joke.

    though we should still strive for it. what IS happiness? it's nothing but a manipulation of serotonin/dopaminine levels in your neurons. if we view happiness as a mere chemical transaction, we realize, as with all human bodily-based functions, it must be exploited to actualize its greatest utility to the individual. by exploited, i mean using mind-altering substances

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    to become 'happy' so that we can then function like 'normal' human beings in this world that other narrow-minded sheltered freaks won't run from.

    personally, my perfect drug of choice is self-delusion. lying to yourself. which is basically what philosophy's about, eh? convincing yourself that logic is infallible, that you know how to manipulate logic to its fullest extent, and that you can use this magical skill to learn about and ultimately create a more 'comfortable' environment for you to grow fat in.

    thats my depressing thought of the day . . . er, decade.

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    and how do you upload avatars here?
     
  13. Cactus Jack Death Knight of Northrend Registered Senior Member

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    816
    Well the first part of your argument was interesting, if we look at it as a purely chemical reaction then taking mind altering drugs does achieve true happiness. I mean what really is true happiness?

    However, your second part an attack on logic was unfounded. Logic is, the word we created but not the principle. Without logic we could not have this conversation, created these machines, live, exist. We are not manipulating logic, when making a conclusion and then backing it with a flawlessly logical thought process we make that conclusion logical and hence probable. I don't think one lies to themself when using logic.


    Oh and by the way, your quote. Let me say this in reply:

    "You would know, wouldn't you?
    you extend your hand to those who suffer
    to those who know what it really feels like
    to those who've had a taste"

    - Nine Inch Nails, I do not want this (a song with personal meaning to me), from the Downward spiral. Don't get me started on NIN they are the best band in the universe.
     
  14. ubermich amnesiac . . . Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    235
    thank you cactus jack. i thought i would never find a philosopher with an obsession for nine inch nails, but before i get into that . . .

    let me clarify. i don't believe logic as a principle to be fallible (see my posts on the "my philosophy" thread in this forum), but rather any human application of logic. like kant asserted about a priori synthetic learning: our knowledge is limited by our sensory experiences, which not only includes what we see, hear, taste, etc., but how we imbibe that knowledge (in predefined, "innate" categories in our minds.) because our experiences are limited, so are any logical conclusions, and hence the logical conclusion that logic is infallible universally cant be proved. like someone else said on this forum: logic is merely the calculator, the tool, what you get depends on what you put into it, and when we as humans have a certain unchangeable operating system, and i dont think you can conclude that our "logic" is infallible.

    about the whole "manipulating logic" thing, i dont mean to say that humans abuse/ bend the rules of logic when i say they manipulate it, i mean that logic becomes part of the lie we live when we use it as a means to that end.

    nine inch nails analogy, my trent reznor loving friend: mr self-destruct realizes, through impure a priori synthetic reasoning, that the world controls him; hes a "screaming slave" to his god, his society, his lovers, and ironically enough, even to his need for control. when i made that statement about manipulating logic, it was the reverse thought process of mr self-destruct's. if i can use logic to enlighten myself to the true nature of my environment, i can use it to lie to myself as well. of course, thats more of my personal preference on how to deal with the painful inadequacies of the world. mr self-destruct blows his brains out with a gun, i prefer to do it with my thoughts.

    and as for nine inch nails: i have to say that they are THE most philosophical group, with the possible exception of tool, out there in the mainstream market. but it irks me to no end that no one in nine inch nails forums wants to talk about the philosophical significances of tds, and broken and phm and the fragile. trent reznor's music is his evolution as a human being, and he encapsulates the human condition, and much of nieztschean and postmodern philosophy, in less than an hour of random, ambient, totally dysjunctive and often discordant noises orchestrated into melodic rhythms so sublime, so raw, so brutally naked, and ultimately so perfect that they can convey the most complex philosophical theories into the language of music: random beatings of various "instruments."

    f'in ridiculous how good nin is.

    thanks cactus jack, i really, really, really have been looking for someone interesting to shoot the sh*t about nin's philosophy with, but those people dont exist on nin forums. i guess they do here.

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    (you on any nin forums? whats ur username? i mightve seen you.)
     
  15. Chagur .Seeker. Registered Senior Member

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    2,235
    Ubermich ...

    "and how do you upload avatars here?"

    Same as there:

    Control Panel -> Edit Options -> Change Avatar -> select a URL or load
    one off your HD -> Submit Modifications

    Take care

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  16. Cactus Jack Death Knight of Northrend Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    816
    Ahh, thanks for the clarification ubermich. I get you now, sorry if I was a bit offensive, misunderstood your ideas.

    i mean that logic becomes part of the lie we live when we use it as a means to that end.

    I was curious about this line though. Do you mean when we use logic to get philosophical answers? And therefore believe we have answers when there really can never be? Hence "living a lie" or do you mean something else, any clarification would be cool.


    And as far as NIN goes, for me, they are my favorite band because they bring out emotions and feelings through music I feel no one else has ever understood. Empathy of sorts from one person in this world. Coolest thing is I've seen em live

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    Anyway if you wanna discuss Philosophy related to NIN or something I'm game, just PM me.

    PS- No I never go on NIN forums, I feel what the songs mean to me is a very personal thing that I don't want tainted (I'm still up for philosophical discussions don't get me wrong), that and stuff about where do you think they're going next and such gets boring.
     
  17. ubermich amnesiac . . . Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    235
    hi jack,

    check out my av. its the "broken" n.

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    logic always has different paths, i believe. when these contradict, you must reappropriate one of these logical paths/threads or perhaps a new one to reconcile them, which i believe is lying. (similar to derrida, i think.) the easiest way i can explain it is through analogy:

    i (seriously) believe that the essence of man is in his mind, his reason, not his body. (as descartes said, the only thing we can be sure of is our mind) and furthermore, i believe the nature of a man's reason is subject to what he makes of it; he can change it if he wants.

    unfortunately, a logical implication to that belief is that man must also be able to alter if his body if he wants (because man's body isnt part of his essence, even lower than his mind. and if mind can be altered, then why not body?) but that means then that any alteration of the body is ok, including cosmetic surgery. and part of my gut wrenches at that thought. part of me, perhaps because of my values/inhibitions, cant accept the final product of allowing billions and billions of people to alter their figures at the whim of fashion or culturally-created beauty.

    because of this, i will choose to lie myself by assuming a different strain of logic: that is, man's body IS a part of his essence. the fact that im this race, or this sex, is inseparable from my identity proves that. i just used one logic to ignore another when both may be true.

    if you look at that though, i think im making it unclear by criticizing logic. it all goes back to your values. i had two values: preserving physicality and placing the mind on a pedestal. when they contradicted, i "fixed" the problem w/ superficial glue/tape logic. that doesnt work. who says both cant be true?

    ps: you a big ninja turtles fan?
     
  18. Cactus Jack Death Knight of Northrend Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    816
    Now I get it, but seriously that's the basis of philosophy. Philosophy is used to twist people's world view in the same way, your philosophy is your pov.

    ps: you a big ninja turtles fan?

    Seriously, I have never met another guy my age or around it that isn't. I'm not a hudge fan now or something but when I was a kid I was a fanatic like everyone else I've met.
     
  19. ubermich amnesiac . . . Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    235
    on ninja turtles:

    not judging you or anything. i used to be into them too when i was a kid. i just have never seen one where rafael's looks like he's about to go apeshit. my memories of ninja turtles were always the shots where they ate pizza and told us not to do drugs and stand up to peer pressure.

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  20. ndrs The Anti-Cthulhu Registered Senior Member

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    397
    If you don't mind, I'll go back to happiness <- self-confidence topic.
    I believe that one shouldn't try to keep a happy (feeling good) mind. I believe that life has bad sides to it, and that is the beauty of it. Bad sides are the interesting part since they are the ones that provide you with challenges. I wouldn't like to live in heaven...
    Just rise above the temporary ups-and-downs...
    On the same, I would say that self-confidence is needed, as long as not too much (maybe a different type?). I always try to criticize myself as much as possible, and I like people who criticize me (moderatly of course

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    )...
    Being peace with yourself, I doubt you can ever achieve that. And I hope I won't...
    Or maybe admitting that you can never be at peace with yourself is actually being in peace with yourself?

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  21. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    19,083
    Dhammapada VIII - Thousands. extract

    100-102*:

    Better
    than if there were thousands
    of meaningless words is
    one
    meaningful
    word
    that on hearing
    brings peace.

    Better
    than if there were thousands
    of meaningless verses is
    one
    meaningful
    verse
    that on hearing
    brings peace.

    And better than chanting hundreds
    of meaningless verses is
    one
    Dhamma-saying
    that on hearing
    brings peace.



    103-105:

    Greater in battle
    than the man who would conquer
    a thousand-thousand men,
    is he who would conquer
    just one --
    himself.

    Better to conquer yourself
    than others.
    When you've trained yourself,
    living in constant self-control,
    neither a deva nor gandhabba,
    nor a Mara banded with Brahmas,
    could turn that triumph
    back into defeat.




    106-108*:

    You could, month by month,
    at a cost of thousands,
    conduct sacrifices
    a hundred times,
    or
    pay a single moment's homage
    to one person,
    self-cultivated.
    Better than a hundred years of sacrifices
    would that act of homage be.

    You could, for a hundred years,
    live in a forest
    tending a fire,
    or
    pay a single moment's homage
    to one person,
    self-cultivated.
    Better than a hundred years of sacrifices
    would that act of homage be.

    Everything offered
    or sacrificed in the world
    for an entire year by one seeking merit
    doesn't come to a fourth.
    Better to pay respect
    to those who've gone
    the straight way.



    109:

    If you're respectful by habit,
    constantly honoring the worthy,
    four things increase:
    long life, beauty,
    happiness, strength.



    110-115:

    Better than a hundred years
    lived without virtue, uncentered, is
    one day
    lived by a virtuous person
    absorbed in jhana.

    And better than a hundred years
    lived undiscerning, uncentered, is
    one day
    lived by a discerning person
    absorbed in jhana.

    And better than a hundred years
    lived apathetic & unenergetic, is
    one day
    lived energetic & firm.

    And better than a hundred years
    lived without seeing
    arising & passing away, is
    one day
    lived seeing
    arising & passing away.

    And better than a hundred years
    lived without seeing
    the Deathless state, is
    one day
    lived seeing
    the Deathless state.

    And better than a hundred years
    lived without seeing
    the ultimate Dhamma, is
    one day
    lived seeing
    the ultimate Dhamma.
     
  22. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,083
    self confidence gives us strenght to stand for our right, to walk forth and do before everyone else does.
    to retranslate one beautiful russian song->
    air will hold only those who believe in themselves
    wind will blow you there where orders the one who believes in himslef.
    you get the idea.

    in any way there are more advantages for those who are self confident than for those who aren't.
     

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