Sex offenders? Can we trust?

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by heavyarms, Mar 8, 2008.

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  1. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    I truly do not believe that we have any way to know whether a child was harmed by the alleged sexual predator or by the reaction of his parents and other caretakers to the fact that he was touched. I have never believed that a pubescent person was harmed by the act itself. Even then it is still better not to. Even if it were good for the child or teenager to be touched that way, and it could be argued that it is, the hysterical reaction when the parents find out will destroy any such benefit and those parents and other caretakers will destroy the child. Not that there isn't more than half a chance that they were busy doing that anyway.

    OK, I may have killed the thread. What was my point? My point is that abuse is bad whatever you call the particular abuse and wherever it comes from. People refuse to understand the fact that they are making sexual abuse of children a lot worse. The easiest way to keep from understanding this is to make it the ultimate bad end that a child can come to. They also want to avoid scientific evidence of this. The hysteria is very profitable and fuels a vast industry, also. This industry includes the sale of rape detection kits, DNA tests, the prison industry, and all those grants that police departments get and don't really know what to do with. That's billions of tappable dollars.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2008
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  3. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    What is very disturbing to me is when Priests are found sexually abusing children in their congregation and never serve any jail time because the parents drop the charges after they are "paid off" by the Vatican and the Priests are just moved to a new church that has no isea what that Priest did to the children before!

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  5. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    Obviously the four teenagers you describe are not sex offenders and do not belong on the list. But true pedophiles (people sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children) should be locked up forever. There is no cure and they have no legitimate outlet for their urges. They will re-offend.

    Unless a cure is found (castration?), they shouldn't be released.
     
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  7. Pinocchio's Hoof Pay the Devil, or else.......£ Registered Senior Member

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    http://www.springerlink.com/content/jt1545g45372111j/

    1) Sexual abuse, generaly is something that gives the offending adult sexual pleasure I don't know what you think sexual abuse is
    http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=e...al abuse&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title
    2) I don't think anybody has mentioned or hinted that they blamed "sex" the blame lies on the offender

    DON'T GET WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO SAY HERE?
    So you think that people who are anti-paedophile sex have no interest in the well being of children, are evil people and are trying to control us by keeping us as children.......you stoned or something...............?

    An average child has little or no comprehension/understanding of sex or the feelings surrounding sex or even hits puberty till 13.
    And you are saying that children 13 and under, who are forced to perform sex acts to gratify the sick needs of a social misfit are in fact harmed not by the forced sex, the paedophile attacker or the feeling of disgust and shame but are in fact harmed by the parents.........?
    This isn't roman times, and I think you take a view on sexualy abused children that worries me:scratchin: almost that the only wrong commited is by saying it's wrong?
     
  8. Pinocchio's Hoof Pay the Devil, or else.......£ Registered Senior Member

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    Metakron I've got a list and profie of some of the worst serial killers you read It and see if you can find a constant or trend in abused sustained and then inflicted. also you will see that they are nearly all sexual predators

    http://crime.about.com/od/serial/Serial_Killers_and_Mass_Murderers.htm

    also.
    http://crime.about.com/od/sex/SexualRelated_Crimes.htm

    the bit about child sex tourism perhaps you could put your twopence to this where does the blame lie to you are the kids realy being harmed????????????????????....................PPPPfff...or does the blame lie with people who say the child sex industry is bad, because they are promoting it?
     
  9. Bells Staff Member

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    Personally, I think the fear of sexual predators who prey on children has always existed and will continue to exist so long as adults view children as sexual objects. It has everything to do with the concern one has for one's children. It has nothing to do with keeping "us all as children", but everything to do with ensuring the safety of children in society.

    How do you assume that you are being exploited by laws which prevent people from sexually abusing children? More importantly, why do you assume you are being exploited?

    In the majority of cases, parents and caretakers find out that the child has been sexually abused because of the changes in the child. The child becomes overly sexually aware of itself and others. The child's behavior changes detrimentally. The child can also become deeply depressed and can sometimes attempt to harm him/herself. You may not view these things as being 'harm' to the child, but it can and does. In most cases, the child has already been irreparably harmed by the time the parents find out.

    The parent's reaction can cause further harm to the child, especially if the reaction is a violent one, for example, the parent(s) seeking out the abuser and beating them to a pulp or if the abusers is a family member or other parent, the child can feel some guilt about the harm or removal from the family the sexual predator is often made to suffer. In most instances, the child blames itself for the abuse and for any harm or punishment the offender is made to suffer. That is what sexual predators do, they make sure the child blames itself.

    Now whether you view the above as being detrimental to the child is really up to you. There is a plethora of information and studies which document the detrimental affects on a child after it has been the victim of sexual abuse. It is not mass hysteria. It is documented fact that children are severely damaged by sexual abuse. That you attempt to blame others for it is, beyond me.

    Why not? You don't think a teenager can be harmed by being raped by a parent, for example? Or being masturbated by a trusted person or parent against it's will or consent? You don't think sexual abuse of a "pubescent person" can lead that individual to have an altered view about him/herself and sex in general? You don't view that as being harm?

    Not to what? Sexually abuse the "pubescent person"? No, really? Who'd have thunk it...

    What?

    Do you think it can be good for a child or teenager to be sexually abused? Pray tell, how? You honestly think a child can be benefited by being raped or sexually molested? What benefit can the child get from something like that Meta?

    Are you aware that sexual predators often comment that their acts benefited the child? Why do you think that is, Meta?

    Right..

    Killed the thread? Oh no, I think you are taking this thread to a whole new level.

    You are contradicting yourself. You argued above that sexual abuse can benefit a child.

    And what you fail to understand is that sexual abusing a child can and does cause severe damage to the child, be it physically and psychologically. That damage then goes on to affect them for the rest of their lives. Child abuse is often repeated. It can be cyclical. Abused children often grow up to become abusers themselves.

    The reason people treat child abuse as being terrible is because it is terrible.

    It is but one "ultimate bad end" a child can suffer. There is illness such as cancer, accidents, death, and a plethora of horrible things that can be considered an "ultimate bad end". I think you would find that most parents would view child abuse as being up there in the 'bad things that can happen to my child' list.

    So you don't think the community and the State should be working to stop children from becoming victims of sexual abuse? Do you think a person who rapes or molests a child should go to jail or be placed in a mental institution?

    I'll put it another way, would you feel your child were safe if you were living next door to a child molester? Would you allow that individual in your home or allow your child to visit this individual? And if your child were sexually abused and you found out about it, would you tell your child that it is nothing wrong or would you call the police? Would you give in to the "hysteria"? Or would you just tell your child to consider it to be a good thing they were 'loved' by that individual? In short, just how would you handle it if you found out a family member, friend or neighbour sexually molested and/or raped your child?
     
  10. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    madanthonywayne whats worse is the fact that those four cant get jobs in goverment, health or child care now. All because they chained themselves naked and painted gold to a fence in front of parliment
     
  11. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    Bells, i agree that at the moment care is compleatly inadiquate. HOWEVER these lists dont fix the problem and nor does the current penelties. Why throw them in jail then? throw them into the mental health system (ok first we need to FUND the mental health system better but im not going to get into the economics of the issue) for an unlimited time. If they cant be cured then they stay there forever.
     
  12. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    Bells, I have some idea what kind of studies and information you have bought into, and I think that they are biased and presented by groups that have a much greater interest in controlling humans than they do in the well-being of children. Granted, a lot of them probably think that it is in humanity's best interest to be controlled that way.

    It seems to me that feeling that being raped is worse than being beaten is because of anti-sexuality at least as much as because of the deed. Worse, if a person actually feels that he or she was not raped but had consensual sex, it is very damaging for people to go to that person and say that they were damaged because that sex was illegal. This kind of damage is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Do you know what a self-fulfilling prophecy is, Bells?

    I don't know what I'm going to do with all this. "Science" in this case is based on rumor, hearsay, and who has the political pull. The habit of referring to statutory rape as simply "rape" started at a particular point in time that I remember, when some ambitious prosecutor said that word that way at a particular time on a news segment and it gave me that sinking feeling when I knew that something evil had been injected into the world of human thought, that would stick and burn and destroy a lot of people before it had run its course. It's just button-pushing. No real thought goes into this.
     
  13. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    John Walsh seems to have involved himself in this to get revenge against someone for the murder of his son, who died by decapitation in 1981 at the age of six years old. It's hard for me to believe that in 27 years he hasn't figured out anything better than to encourage the equation of his boy's death with the practice, thousands of years old, of men having sex with 14 year old girls. This is a very nasty thing to try to get people to go along with, a blood revenge motive against men who follow a pattern of sexuality that is so old and so prevalent that any sane evaluator would call it normal. I don't see anything to the origin of the current revulsion against this practice except a deliberate program to drive humans even more insane.

    Once again, as I've said before, there are sane reasons to avoid having sex with teenagers. I don't want them in my bedroom or in my bed even when I am not there. I also don't care for taking certain physical risks with them. However, I am quite certain that they have created a very overblown mass negativity by the usual means.

    Yes, I think that there is a limit to the damage caused even by forcible rape, let alone that caused by touching someone in ways that might have been pleasant and that might have been within the person's ability to live with. This projection that "children just can't handle sex" is stupid and it is a projection of the fears that adults have, said adults being certain that they themselves can't handle sex. I don't know if anywhere else in the world, outside of the United States and the United Kingdom ever fights so hard against their children growing up. In a natural world adults do assist children in growing into their own sexuality. Americans seem to have invented the absolute worst way to do it and chosen that as their politically correct way to teach children about sexuality, attempting to make them fear it worse than death.
     
  14. heavyarms Registered Member

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    MetaKron, Dude are you on crack? Are you sure your feeling O.K.? Becuase that's the bigest load of crap I've ever seen................. And I once seen a guy dump a dumptruck load of cow crap on a car! What ever's been said by you has me worried that you might be an idiot. Protecting our childen isn't an evil industry think it's a parental thing. I'm not a parent but I do have my nephew who I see evry weekend and that's good enough for me. As for most everyone else I do agree a list is too much. Especially when they are getting beaten up when they commited a crime 10-20 years ago just knowing that they are in the area and it's a posibility should be enough. But what if it's a level 3 and they say that they are cured and they are reliesed from prison/rehab should the neiborhood that they move into only know that he/she is there or should they know what level that the person is and what to look out for in terms of how the last offense took place andhow to stay out of that position.
     
  15. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    You've just proven to me how totally fucked up it is.
     
  16. Pinocchio's Hoof Pay the Devil, or else.......£ Registered Senior Member

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    You are failing to comprehend that the adult will continue till caught
    A paedophile will start off touching children inapropriately then work up a ladder until they are full blown predatory paedophile and it always start's of with what you describe as 'touching in ways that might be pleasant' do you think that child killers/sex perverts start off with Rape and murder????? no they don't they start of with what you call 'innocent touching' and if you think that a young child is anyway physicaly/mentaly ready for sex then you are either a nonce (local slang for paedo) or stupid.
    did you bother to read the link to serial killers and the percentages in 50 of abuse..............?
    I don't know who walsh is by the way?.

    And the fact that you think that the only problem with say a 5 year old having sex with an adult is the fact that other adults scorn it makes you the most uneducated, stupid ,unintelligent child rapist loving moron i've ever met and I am glad that society locks people like you up..............(I have my fingers xed that I have misinterprated you)

    OR MAYBE I MIS-UNDERSTOOD YOU, OR PERHAPS YOU ARE MICHAEL JACKSON HE LIKES TO SLEEP WITH KIDS .
    either way I would give up this thread if I were you your opinion sickens me
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2008
  17. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    You don't seem to have understood what I said, Pinnochio. I know that sometimes my writing is a little too complex for some people.
     
  18. Pinocchio's Hoof Pay the Devil, or else.......£ Registered Senior Member

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    Its not complex, either you haven't explained yourself properly, or you have..!
    you come across as if there is nothing wrong with having sex with sexualy undeveloped children..................BUT THERE IS, THERE IS ALOT OF THINGS WRONG WITH IT..........
    You seem to be blasie about rape ' there is a limit to damaged caused by forcable rape'.....well where is the limit...............

    You also say on the same line "let alone caused by touching someone in ways that MIGHT have been pleasant and they MIGHT have been able to live with"

    you view is narrow minded and sick in a modern culture, you are only looking through the adults perspective how can something sexualy pleasing to a 48 year old be felt by the 5 year old child they are molesting???????

    you are giving kids a sexual status which they do not have. there is a line drawn in the civilised world between 14-17 a consential age for sex the reason is that they have hit puberty and are capable of it........

    In the news now there is the commotion about sex abuse in jersey in a old childrens home where they have recovered bodies.......I bet you that the molester/killer/child murderer started off innocently touching a child for their own sick pleasure but then it wasn't enough and it escalated........................
    Yet according to you there is not even any link between serial killers and sexual abuse..............?
    I do not think you have enough knowledge to give a clear and intelligent argument, its varied ramblings/ideals in your post's have no foundation for progression except for promoting primative urges
     
  19. 15ofthe19 35 year old virgin Registered Senior Member

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    This might be the most ridiculous thing I've read today.

    You wouldn't happen to own a tinfoil hat, would you?
     
  20. Pinocchio's Hoof Pay the Devil, or else.......£ Registered Senior Member

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    :bravo:
    your not the only one
     
  21. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    Pin, the responses that you gave in #35 were hackneyed and out of date forty years ago.
     
  22. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Mod Hat - Play nicely

    Mod Hat — Play nicely, chil'uns

    Play nicely with one another. Dig?

    Good.

    Thank you.
     
  23. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    Pinnochio, here's the problem in a nutshell: They call it harmful because of the sex and not because of the damage, physical or mental, that is actually caused to the child. It is a cheap way to get out of actually doing the job that an accuser is morally obligated to do, and that job is to prove his or her case.

    A person who accuses someone else of misconduct is often a bad neighbor. They aren't likely to have much character. Accusations are weapons, not intellectual discourse.
     
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