Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by S.A.M., Jun 23, 2008.
Yup, that would be my opinion too. In fact, I conducted this "experiment" because it was my opinion.
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There are people who's hands I would refuse to shake. You act like Dawkins did it out of ideological reasons not personal.
Why would you conduct such an experiment?:bugeye:
If someone did that to me, as in ask me if I were an atheist and then informed me they did not shake hands with atheists, I would consider them to be a religious bigot and then continue on my way. My response would be the same regardless of my belief system or the belief system you supported or were shunning. For example, if I were a Muslim and you exclaimed you would not shake hands with Christians, I'd view you in the same light. Advise you of my religious leanings, tell you that you are a bigot and then walk away, probably with a "fuck you" thrown in somewhere. If I observed you doing it before you came before me, I would tell you to get lost and not shake your hand and again, walk away.
And yes, your actions would be deemed to be offensive, not to mention rude.
Again, why would you conduct such an experiment?
I'd get my friends together and make them each claim to be something different. We'd laugh at the person. "Oh, I'm Christian" <shake hands> "I am also a lesbian...hey, you're kinda cute" <not letting go of hand, pulling person closer>
I had an argument on sciforums, about Dawkins refusal to shake the hands of a minister on the opposite side of a political debate, while calling him an ignorant bigot.
I was told that no one has a right to expect people to shake their hands. One can refuse to shake hands with anyone. I wondered if I was being overly critical so I tried it out. Most people, it would seem, consider it both rude and offensive behaviour. I told them I was trying out how it felt to be a rational person. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
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You got in the argument because you insisted that Dawkins refused to shake the guy's hand because the guy was a theist.
Which was just more of your weird goofiness where Dawkins is concerned. Dawkins has shaken hands with many, many theists.
There are situations in which I would refuse to shake someone's hand, and having been in a debate with them in which they behaved as that guy did might well be one. And if they took offense, well - message received.
Yeah, sometimes I put out my tongue and cross my eyes too, while putting my thumbs in my ears and waggling my fingers. That really shows them how valid my points were.
What do you think of this?
Well, it would be one of your most persuasive arguments yet, SAM.
It just seems to me that he disliked his opponent enough and considered him to be a bigot. He obviously knew him already and had formed an opinion of him based on their history together. It is not the same as your experiment however. Had Dawkins had not known him at all, then asked him if he was a theist and then told him he does not shake hands with theists because he thinks they are bigots, then we might consider your experiment to have some merit in this area.
Dawkins has many friends who are theists. He discusses their friendships and understanding of the principles of science quite a bit in his books. He does not, however, ever state that he will not shake their hands because they are theists. It seems to me that he dislikes this particular minister for other reasons and considers him, the minister, to be a bigot. Totally different scenario to your experiment.
Tell me, do you shake hands with everyone normally, even those people you have an intense dislike for or consider to be a bigot?
Of course you can refuse to shake hands with anyone. I often do. For example, if I see someone picking their nose and then they come up to me and introduce themselves, I won't shake their hand. What is rude and offensive is to ask someone if they are of a particular faith, sexuality, or race and then inform them that you do not shake hands with individuals who belong to or are something you are bigoted against, which is what you were doing in your experiment. Your experiment was nothing like Dawkins refusal to shake hands with someone he knows and dislikes for a particular reason (that being he considers the minister to be a bigot).
And no, your experiment is not from one with a rational mind. It shows a sense of irrationality.
He did not do it just the once. I think the incident with the students was very shallow.
Yeah I notice thats the kind of argument that appeals to some people here.
One of the reasons people started to shake hands was to show they had nothing to hurt the other person with, like a knife, so as to show openess and trust.
I wouldn’t be offended if someone refused to shake my hand. I can only recall two occasions where I initiated a handshake with a male that I was meeting for the first time. I don’t mind shaking the hands of attractive females, but I usually don't like to shake the hand of anyone that I am not sexually attracted to. I prefer to greet people with the bow that is common in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean cultures.
If they balk at the handshake, I go for the embrace and kisses on the cheeks. If they turn and run playing hard-to-greet, I immediately go for the friendly tackle.
Heh I like that, the Mumbai mangle is to grab and hug while bussing both cheeks. There is no way around it. Your desire or opposition is irrelevant.
Sounds like it's personal.
(btw: I note that the story is second hand, and we have some reason to mistrust each link in the transmission chain)
Dawkins has shaken hands with many, many theists - including debate opponents, critics, etc.
'You must greet meeeee!.. Resistance is futile'..
If it was just you, then I'd be offended. Like Bells, I'd think you were a religious bigot. But, that's not the important thing. The important this is that I'd conlcude you have no manners or sense of normal decent behaviour towards other human beings.
On the other hand, if nobody of your religion ever shook hands, then I'd accept that as a facet of your belief. I might think it was a silly belief, but I'd politely keep that to myself.
sam i have to agree with james and anti-flag
If you said "sorry i dont shake hands because of my religious beliefs" or "sorry i dont shake hands because of this horrible contagious skin condition" then i wouldnt care
However if you asked my religion before shaking hands i couldnt help but conclude you were a bigot. The same if you asked my sexuality, my heritige or anything else as a reason not to shake.
That being said if you simply didnt shake my hand because you hated me personally that would be fine (it would just be another reason to dislike youPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image!) as in the example you posted. It seems to me from the limited amount you posted here that he didnt shake his hands because he disliked him personally which is fine
i can only recall it happening once to me, i was offended but under the context, and given the guy seemed strange, i just shrugged it off albeit reluctantly. i'd expect some kind of explanation if refused a handshake when meeting someone. i remember on some fishing show, the captain of the ship wouldn't shake a new guy's hand til after the season or whatever. that'd piss me off, i don't care how tough and rugged a sea captain you are, you're still up yourself and a wanker.
youre a Muslim right?
would YOU be offended if someone refused to shake your hand calling you a towel head terrorist or a sand nigger.
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