Discussion in 'World Events' started by odin, Sep 11, 2001.
My deepest sympathy goes out to USA.
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Blood shortages. Chaos. Dead, charred bodies. Bloody bodies. Depravity. These are the scenes on this most traumatic of days...my deepest condolences to to American residents.
terrorism is a must in our world...Marxism is always going to exist destructively.
The American government is ugly and dirty...but doesn't quite deserve this. Heartbreaking.
Want to know why this happens? Just look at the first line of my signature.
Ankit, welcome to Sciforums.
I think your second line will also hit close to the truth....for someone.
I told all of you guys. I told everyone the Palestinians were mostly wrong and they hated you guys. Did you hear about how they were celebrating. Incase you guys dont yet know, osama bin laden was the culprit, but they all hate you the same. They want war to destroy the USA. Although I highly doubt the US could be destroyed. Like the others, My condolences go out to all of you Americans, and I hope you catch those guys. Everytime I watch that scene of the explosion it makes me sick. I still cant believe it actually happened. Sounds like something out of a story.
"The American government is ugly and dirty..." -Ankit
oh yeah? compared to what?
Who would do that for kiks ??? :-(
why would people kill for kic's what did the people do? To whoever did this to them ? What is it beacuse the amercain people live a better life than thay do ???
did thay get up on the wrong side of the bed ? and think" hay lets kill someone"?
it's murder plain and simple?
Sorry, but I'm not quite getting this, maybe someone can help me out. But under what circumstances is terrorism a necessity?
Terrorism is a necessity only when the chickensh*t terrorists are afraid to address their issues like civilized human beings. Whoever did this, be they foreign or domestic, should be hunted down and killed without mercy. I know someone is bound to argue that all that will acocmplish is to get somebody else to retaliate. They should be hunted down and killed without mercy too. This cycle should continue until these little bastards are eradicated. They don't want to behave like civilized human beings, and we should not treat them like civilized human beings. I heard a voice on the radio today say that to feel angry, even furious, and to want gratuitous amounts of bloodshed from those responsible is a perfectly normal response, and it was therefore a good thing that we, the angry listening audience, weren't in charge. I agree. I am at least still in control of my actions, if not my emotions.
I saw three survivors of Pearl Harbor break down in tears. They weren't having flashbacks. They were in tears because they considered this attack to be much worse than Pearl Harbor.
It's up to us, at the top of the 21st century, to decide whether or not terrorism is going to be tolerated. Negotiations didn't work in the 20th century. I think we have to talk to these punks in the only language they seem to understand.
Let's hit 'em. "Damn the torpedoes."
Oxygen, <img src = "http://www.sciforums.com/t3893/s1b968ad4a02e03e3e5ba14c9fcfc102f/images/icons/icon14.gif">
I think it is important to see what comes of the investigation first; but once we are certain, an ugly reply should be given. And while we are at it, we should further our efforts to eliminate all other sources of potential terrorism.
In short, let's get the bastards. All of 'em.
This is a terrible thing to happen for so many reasons, it's hard to contemplate the consequences of what has occurred. I think the shock in London is almost as great as in the US - London and New York are like twins - I think we all know someone who was affected. The world is now a different place.
As a middle east analyst, you can imagine that this has been a busy and difficult time for me. As a human being perhaps harder still. Clearly, whoever is responsible needs to be punished, but there are other concerns.
I understand the natural inclination to blame all Arabs or blame muslims - but that would be a gross mistake. Whoever did this must have levels of fanaticsm we can barely comprehend, but this is not common in the middle east. The Palestinian celebration was bad - insensitive, ill-judged and, I have to say, somewhat overplayed. It was isolated. My contacts in the region tell me that there is a remarkable sense of sympathy - and let's not pretend, the US is generally disliked in the region.
But we all know after Oklahoma that no one people have a monopoly on evil.
I hope a response is well targeted and restrained. There is a real possibility of escalation.
Bin Laden, who I must say is almost certain to have done this, is not a country. The Taliban allow him refuge - partly through choice, partly through fear. This makes it difficult to find an appropriate target to focus US anger.
This really is a new kind of enemy (the hype is true), though one who has been around a while. He has no cause as such (no country he wants, no prisoners he wants released, no pronouncement he wants heard) - he simply wants to destroy the US. It's almost impossible to deal with this sort of fanaticism, but remember he is not representative of the entire Arab or Muslim world.
Justice? Yes. Revenge? Perhaps. These should be sought, but there is a deeper problem that will require addressing in the future. Now is still the time to mourn.
Violence is not the answer
Could somebody please tell me *why* the US is screaming for blood ? Yes, it is horrible what happened in NY and Washington, but do you really think a war will undo anything ? The US has already declared its intention to go to war, not only to the people behind the attack, but also to the country that harbours them.
This makes me wonder who is the monster in the discussion, a terrorist that attacks innocent citizens for what he believes to be a just cause, or a country that attacks a hundred times more people because of ... revenge ? Can you think of a more ridicilous reason ?
The NATO has decided that this incident can be classified as an act of war on the US allies. I disagree, this is an act of terrorism. An act of war can only be commited by an entire country, not by some dissident group of terrorists. I think, and I hope, that most European allies share this opinion and will NOT agree to join the US in their causeless battle for revenge.
I urge everybody who screams for war to reconsider his opinion. Yes, it will be good for the US - this will sound sarcastic and offensive, however it is not meant to be in any way, sorry - but this incident couldn't have happened at a better time for the US: the economy is slowing, unemployment rates are skyrocketing. No business like war, right ?
Pilots trained inside the US ? Has anybody ever considered this to be an attack from inside the US, with US citizens as terrorists ? Will the US declare war on itself if it turns out to be this way - after all, war has been promised so war is what the public gets. The media is screaming that Bin Laden and his group are responsible - something I find very hard to believe. To me it seems that the media is only trying to justify the need of a war to the general public. Bin Laden isn't suicidal and I think he is rational enough to see that this kind of attack would eradicate his movement entirely (and hence it cannot fullfill what they believe to be their cause). Why do you think he took refuge in Afghanistan ? Could it be because he doesn't want American cruise missiles dropped on his head for the 1993 bombing of the WTC ?
Just think about it rationally and you will see that a lot of the stuff in the media just doesn't make sense. Think twice before believing it and supporting the US governement for war. I know I will.
At times like this, you expect our leaders to have cool heads when media is running the whole episode 24 hours a day? Judging from postings in Sciforums whose members are less venomous than any other forums, I can say that we are screwed.
US is definitely retaliate due to public pressure. Then the enemy will attack. We will retaliate. It will continue until a new president comes in and makes peace. By then, we have lost our freedom and be under bunkers.
Patriotism has its price. And we will pay them with the lives of our fellow men, women and children. Anything else is unthinakble and unpatriotic. We have 226 million and they have one billion souls.
And the game has just started....
Indeed I do! The US government is probably the most powerful government of the entire world, so they especially should keep their heads cool. When you see Powell and Bush saying that the incident is an act of war, I seriously question the integrity of your leaders. They want to shed more innocent blood because some war-eager people (surely also in the government) ask for it ?
Yes, unfortunately they will. And the ONLY reason will be because of public pressure. To me this is a sign of weakness. A government should keep its head cool, and calm down agitated voices in situations like these. Yes, there were people behind the attack, and yes, they should be brought to court. Unfortunately people are screaming for public executions, lynching etc etc... If the US is so fond of democracy, they should act like one and ensure that the people responsible get a fair and honest trial. If the US pursues its war-rage for revenge, then the word "democracy" gets a very sour taste indeed.
Patriotism is not about war. Patriotism is about loving your country and wanting to see it prosper. Patriotism in this time would be to support victims and aid in the reconstruction of NY and Washington. Going to war for revenge, and sacrificing thousands more lives is not patriotic, it's massmurdering. I am under the impression that the US government is driven by pure selfishness and are willing to sacrifice the entire world, just to get revenge. Only you, the people of the US, can change this.
I already hear people saying that a US war will not end in a massmurder. Let me assure you, and I am sure that Captain Canade (as our Middle-East specialist) will agree, if the US invades a Middle-East country, the entire region will destabilize and declare war on either the West or other Middle-East countries.
We surely are, all of us!
1. Jack Spratts - firstly, no offence, but you missed the point by a country mile...I mean no offence to anyone...just that (and I may be digging myself a grave here) the US govt. is not queaky clean and has it conspiracies and skeletons in the closet (Area 51, anyone?)...I'm not sure, but I think America reneged on a pact to back Israel on an issue or something...? I'm really not sure, not that that would be an excuse anyway. What I was simply trying to say is that people may be saying that, politically, the govt. deserved this attack (not counting the lives lost, of course).
2. "Terrorism is a must in our world" - allow me to explain: this is not personal comment as such...but merely a philosophical and sociological reflection on the sorry state of affairs today. Violence occurs so often in modern life that we take it for granted - but the sheer anatomy of such tragedy is superfluously overwhelming...this genre of terrorism is merely a political aggrandisation of violence and power-baying.
Your God Bless.
That is exactly my point. The stupid ones are in power. So what do you think it will happen? Yesterday, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS all talked about aircraft safety. Everyone suggested - including airport officials that the solution is travel restriction and no carry-on luggage. Only one safety expert said that we should put sky marshalls on the plane and have stewards know Judo. That is what I posted in this forum before the guy said it.
So, what will happen is, we will have long lines at the airport, no carry-on luggage, more missing luggage, and a lot of problems. When dumb people make decisions, cool heads or not - you get dumb results.
The reason this happened could be, some lowly person at CIA or NSA got the information but the information got stuck at some manager's desk. Now that the heads are going to roll, that manager is probably trying to cover up saying we get this type of threat every day.
Just like the airport in US hires minimum wage people that are less trained than people at McDonalds, similarly our middleeast intel probably is run by kids fresh out of school without any field experience. Unless you think like your enemy, it is difficult to decipher what the intent is and why? And if you think like the enemy, it may be unpatriotic because it will be equated with being an enemy sympathizer. And the veterans are all retired, who understand the very nature of the threat.
Using a lot of fancy billion dollar communication gear wont help, if you can not understand the enemy. During the cold war and the second world war, we understood our enemy, so it was easy to counter. This time, it is a whole new ball game.
This can be solved. The problem for US is that every 4 years we elect a new president who may not like his ex-presidents policies. On top of that we have two anatgonist parties. So if one takes credit, the other one will sabotage the effort. How can you make a policy that is good for 20, 30, or 50 years?
If you can come up with a solution to this, I will recommend your name to the Nobel Prize...
I'm thinking of the stewards who were hacked with utility knives, their screams of terror and their lives used for the purpose of drawing the pilots out of a plane cockpit. I'm thinking of a NYC request for 6,000 bodybags--more than 4,000 people are known to be missing. I'm thinking of 200+ firefighters and 40+ police officers who are now gone.
<b><font color = "red">I'M THINKING OF THE INDIVIDUAL, CIVILIAN LIVES THAT HAVE BEEN EXTINGUISHED, NO...USED FOR THE PURPOSE OF MAKING A STATEMENT.</font></b>
Excuse me. My compassion is now missing. I cannot forgive such a thing, and I feel it's time to weed the garden. It's time to make a statement of our own. Let's find and destroy those who are responsible and all those who would wage war on us. Let's bomb back to the stone age those countries who harbor and support terrorism. Let's not turn the other cheek this time. Let's return to those who have caused so much pain the weight of our anger. We need to eliminate the threat.
To hell with your rational. Payback is a bitch.
I got on my soap box in free thougths. But I feel the same way. If necessary bomb those countries who aid and support terrorism. Do it until every wanted terrorist group is produced by the very governments that harbor them. If they can not produce such individuals and groups that is ok, too. I would make it continue until not one rock stands against another to form a shelter for any human form. When that country was done I would say "NEXT!". You have x hours to produce. Until moslem countries either understood that it was the big no-no to fool with the US interest or until as a country they no longer existed. They didn't get the message the first time the second time would take care of the problem. It wouldn't be one the third time around. A third time would not be necessary for no blade of grass would stand that was not lead poisoned.
I feel the same way as you do wet1. The only problem is to get rid of evil, you have to become evil. The enemy does not play a civilized game. We did bomb Afganistan after the embassy bombing in Africa. So they waited until people forgot, and then wham. It will either turn into a thousand years war or nuke them and be done with it.
Are you ready to completely wipe out Afganistan, Pakistan, Lebanon, Syria and perhaps Iran....from the face of the earth? That is what it may take.
Separate names with a comma.