Should your self-driving car kill you to save others?

Discussion in 'Intelligence & Machines' started by Plazma Inferno!, Jun 24, 2016.

  1. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    It will do all that - pull over for emergency vehicles, slow down for workers in work zones and take special care (i.e. slow down, use the horn more often) for children. It will never decide to take out some 12 year olds because those 6 year olds on the other side are more worthy.
     
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  3. TheFrogger Registered Senior Member

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    Again, how can a computer know how many years a life has remaining?
     
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  5. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    And before you know it, people will be paying to have themselves put on the "protected" list. Then wealthy people's lives will be worth more than poor people's.
     
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  7. Speakpigeon Registered Senior Member

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    OK, good. You're entitled to your opinions.
    I meant "why" in terms of logical reasons. I'm perfectly happy with the politics of no Nazis anywhere but that wasn't my question.
    EB
     
  8. Speakpigeon Registered Senior Member

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    It couldn't as far as I understand these things but why should the AI know that?
    Usually, all we do in these matters is to have a predictive model and we run with it. We do that in all circumstances bar none.
    So, why should AIs be asked to do any different?
    EB
     
  9. Speakpigeon Registered Senior Member

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    You say "no" but that's not a rational answer.
    The question again is not whether they will do it or not but whether assuming they could do it, why they shouldn't.
    OK, never mind, it's obvious you're no going to even try to answer in a rational way.
    EB
     
  10. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    They will not do it, nor should they. Why?

    Because companies will not decide to kill 12 year olds in favor of 6 year olds. The legal liability alone would be crushing - and no one I know is that immoral.
    Because computers do not have the ability to make the sort of concrete decisions you imagine in the chaotic situation that is driving and human medicine.
    Because developers will make their #1, #2, #3, #4 and #5 priorities avoiding ALL accidents.
    Because too many people watch science fiction and think computers are like that.
    Because the trolley problem has never happened in real life - and likely never will. And thus resources are better spent elsewhere.

    Is that clear enough for you?
     
  11. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    I hearby authorize anybody's self-driven car to kill their passengers in order to save my life.
     
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  12. TheFrogger Registered Senior Member

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  13. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    Don't know those people.
     
  14. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    And it is not rationally conceivable.

    AIs in vehicles do not have access to personal information about strangers within their sensors, not is there a conceivable way they might in the forseeable future.

    AIs in vehicles do not have algorithms sufficiently complex and nuanced to have the faintest notion what the value of a given human is, not is there a conceivable way they might in the forseeable future.
     
  15. Speakpigeon Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, thank you. I wonder why it took you so long. Doesn't seem too difficult... It your own opinions after all.
    Still, it's only clear enough as to your reasons and it's all circumstantial. It's the kind of reasons people give based on what they know about the situation now and assuming little will change.
    Personally, if a human can come up with something like QM and General Relativity and anything else that sounds impressive, I have no reason to think a machine could not do better and even far better. The difficulty really is rather to guess at how much better exactly. Ten times? One thousand times? A billion of a billion times better? I certainly don't know but I don't see why not and I'm sure nobody does.
    So, we just disagree as to the fundamentals of reality. No wonder we disagree as to the specifics.
    EB
     
  16. Speakpigeon Registered Senior Member

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    And I agree with you as to the foreseeable (not forseeable) future. I have always laughed at the recurrent claims about AI potential capabilities going as far back as the 70's, I think. We're in 2018 and still machines are essentially at the level of mechanical idiots. But, again, I don't see any reason that the situation could not improve dramatically.
    Anyway, thanks for trying. No need to argue further, I don't think, or we might have to repeat ourselves.
    EB
     
  17. Speakpigeon Registered Senior Member

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    Please don't put your life in danger or there will be some almighty traffic jam the like of which we've never seen.
    EB
     
  18. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    I take it you don't watch the Russian Car Crash videos.
     
  19. Speakpigeon Registered Senior Member

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    I didn't know there was a Russian car.
    EB
     
  20. TheFrogger Registered Senior Member

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    A skidu?
     
  21. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, the Lada, for one.
     
  22. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    And hit the ditch if necessary to protect them, stop as quickly as possible without regard for risk otherwise, etc.
    Some people's lives will be protected above others, as a priority. Higher risks will be imposed on some, to maintain lower risks for others.
     
  23. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    And kill the kid in the ditch?

    Like I said, developers will put all their efforts into avoiding accidents to begin with - not coming up with creative new ways of crashing.
     

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