Feel free to address my response to fedex and point out if you disagree with any of the facts mentioned therein. Note that most of them have been addressed ad nauseum on this forum [especially by me] and if you are still ignorant of them, there is always google and the Goldstone report [600 pages of Cold Hard Facts]
Well, actually I did ask if you knew about the intent to do so. It might well qualify as a genocide as described, but do you know about the intent to make it a genocide? Anyway, are you going to lay out your explicit comparisons or no? I'm not trying to be mean-spirited here, Sam. I'm trying to give you the actual best forum possible for the expression of your views.
As I have previously explained, when you are killing pregnant camels, destroying the only flour mill and shooting one year olds with sniper bullets or pouring white phosphorus on civlians, I'm not interested in what your justification is. Or to repeat [once again] there are 600 pages of cold hard facts in the Goldstone report. YOU can read it and tell me what you think their intent was.
You complain about ignorance yet do nothing to educate. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Its not my job to educate anyone. I have pointed out plenty of facts and people have the option to check them and make up their own minds. For Geoff to be questioning intent after 250,000 chickens were killed, many by being bulldozed, is too much ignorance for me to tackle. Was the poultry a security risk?
a.) if Israel was active in this activity, you must admit they would never have pulled out of gaza, and they would be exterminating Gazans left and right. And they are not killing Gazans on the basis of race. b.) What this rule applies to are things like pogroms, people get confused with this rule because if you take it literally, it's practically just a repeat of rule A. c.) If a child has a bomb strapped to his chest, the sniper can shoot, but the fact is that Gaza claims itself to be a soverign nation, and not part of Israel, and so in all technicality, Israel has no duty to supply them with squat. d.) For one thing this doesn't make sense, the rule applies to lets say, sterilizing one gender so they cant pro create. e.) Never heard of it, next time provide a link. The problem sam, is that any extreme pro Israeli person will point to the plain and simple fact that this is the problem with war, and SAM you must admit the fact is that in every war there has been, civilians have been harmed. Also, Israel is not killing them on the basis of ethnicity, race, or gender, any pro Israeli would say that the fact that Israel is allied with Jordan and Egypt prove this because the first rule of genocide is you don't ally yourself with the people you are intent on killing. But, SAM, the Israelis also have some valid points, for example the fact that in all of these conflicts it was the Gazans that fired the first shot. Let me give you an example, after the Israeli invasion and subsequent withdrawal a treaty was signed than and there, with the UN watching over their backs, among things was the fact that Gazans would cease their rocket strikes. Since then, thousands of rockets have struck Israel. SAM, the fact is that both sides are in the wrong, and the only way for it to stop is for the UN to finally get the balls to get in their and pull them apart.
They target Palestianians not for being Palestinian but because Hamas has a stated goal of wiping Israel out. An ongoing genocide is definetly not going on because one of the critical problems is a high birth rate in Gaza. Do you expect Israel to just sit there and watch Hamas threaten them and lauch rockets at them? Name one example of an Israeli sniper targeting children specfically. I can certainnly name an instance of Muslims doing that to Jews in Israel if you wish. Israel does not hate Muslims or Arabs. Just consider the fact that the Arabs in Israel were given just about equal rights, and that there are several Arab members of the Knesset. If Israel doesn't occupy Gaza you could probably expect death tolls from suicide bombers similar to that of the Second Intifada.
Agreed, I heard a great quote, something from the Mexican revolution, went something like, "it's better to die on your feet, than live on your knees"
i think the holocaust was worse, based on the intensity of it and other factors. slavery still exists today and affects many races. of course centuries ago it was accepted as fairly normal. as a matter of fact the link shows when slavery was abolished in different regions. http://wapedia.mobi/en/Abolition_of_slavery_timeline Modern timeline: 1588 Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth abolishes slavery[citation needed] 1600 Last villein dies in England[citation needed] 1723 Russia abolishes slavery. [2] 1761, February 12, Portugal abolishes slavery [3] in mainland Portugal and in Portuguese possessions in India through a decree by the Marquis of Pombal. 1772 Practice of slavery declared illegal in England, this included the status of overseas slaves living in England. Lord Chief Justice Mansfield rules that English law does not support slavery. [4] 1777 Slavery abolished in Madeira, Portugal [4] 1777 Slavery abolished in Vermont Republic [4] 1783 Russia abolishes slavery in Crimean Khanate [5] 1783 Massachusetts rules slavery illegal based on 1780 constitution [4] 1783 Bukovina: Joseph II, Holy Roman Emperor issued an order abolishing slavery on 19 June 1783 in Czernowitz. [6] 1787 Sierra Leone founded by Britain as state for emancipated slaves 1787 Society for the Abolition of the Slave Trade founded in Britain [4] 1788 Sir William Dolben's Act regulating the conditions on British slave ships enacted 1792 Denmark-Norway declared transatlantic slave trade illegal after 1802 (though slavery continues to 1848). 1793 Upper Canada, by Act Against Slavery 1794 French First Republic abolishes slavery [4] 1799 New York State introduces gradual emancipation 1799 in Scotland, by an act of the Parliament of Great Britain (39 Geo.III. c. 56). [7] 1802 The emperor Napoleon re-introduces slavery on French colonies growing sugarcane. [3] 1803 Denmark-Norway abolishes transatlantic slave trade on 1 January 1803 1803 Lower Canada abolishes slavery 1804 Haiti declares independence and abolishes slavery [4] 1807 Abolition of the Slave Trade Act: slave trading abolished in British Empire. Captains fined £100 per slave transported. 1807 British begin patrols of African coast to arrest slaving vessels. West Africa Squadron (Royal Navy) established to suppress slave trading; by 1865, nearly 150,000 people freed by anti-slavery operations [8] 1807 Abolition in Prussia, Germany The Stein-Hardenberg Reforms. 1808 United States—importation of slaves into the US prohibited after Jan. 1. [9] 1811 Slave trading made a felony in the British Empire punishable by transportation for British subjects and Foreigners. 1811 Spain abolishes slavery at home and in all colonies except Cuba, [3] Puerto Rico, and Santo Domingo 1813 Argentina abolishes slavery [3] 1814 Dutch outlaw slave trade 1815 British pay Portuguese £750,000 (several hundred million dollars in current values) to cease their trade [10] 1815 Congress of Vienna. 8 Victorious powers declared their opposition to slavery 1816 Serfdom abolished in Estonia. 1817 Serfdom abolished in Courland. 1817 Spain paid £400,000 by British to cease trade to Cuba, Puerto Rico, and Santo Domingo [10] 1818 Treaty between Britain and Spain to abolish slave trade [11] 1818 Treaty between Britain and Portugal to abolish slave trade [11] 1818 France and Holland abolish slave trading 1819 Treaty between Britain and Netherlands to abolish slave trade [11] 1819 Serfdom abolished in Livonia. 1821 Ecuador, Colombia, Venezuela abolish slavery 1822 Liberia founded by American Colonization Society (USA) as a colony for emancipated slaves. 1822 Greece abolishes slavery (note: that this is the year the moderm state was founded and therefore slavery was baned right from the very beginning). 1823 Chile abolishes slavery [4] 1824 The Federal Republic of Central America abolishes slavery. 1827 Treaty between Britain and Sweden to abolish slave trade [11] 1829 Mexico abolishes slavery [4] 1831 Bolivia abolishes slavery [4] 1834 The British Slavery Abolition Act 1833 comes into force, abolishing slavery throughout most of the British Empire. The exceptions being territories controlled by the Honourable East India Company and the islands of Ceylon and St Helena. [12] 1834 Jamaica abolishes slavery [4] 1835 Treaty between Britain and France to abolish slave trade [11] 1835 Treaty between Britain and Denmark to abolish slave trade [11] 1836 Portugal abolishes transatlantic slave trade 1839 British and Foreign Anti-Slavery Society founded, now called Anti-Slavery International 1839 Indian indenture system made illegal 1840 Treaty between Britain and Venezuela to abolish slave trade [11] 1841 Quintuple Treaty is signed; Britain, France, Russia, Prussia, and Austria agree to suppress slave trade [4] 1842 Uruguay abolishes slavery [4] 1843 Honourable East India Company becomes increasingly controlled by Britain and abolishes slavery in India by the Indian Slavery Act V. of 1843. 1843 Treaty between Britain and Uruguay to suppress slave trade [11] 1843 Treaty between Britain and Mexico to suppress slave trade [11] 1843 Treaty between Britain and Chile to suppress slave trade [11] 1843 Treaty between Britain and Bolivia to abolish slave trade [11] 1845 36 British Royal Navy ships are assigned to the Anti-Slavery Squadron, making it one of the largest fleets in the world. 1846 Tunisia abolishes slavery 1847 Sweden abolishes slavery [13] 1848 Denmark abolishes slavery [13] 1848 Slavery abolished in all French and Danish colonies [4] 1848 France founds Gabon for settlement of emancipated slaves. 1848 Treaty between Britain and Muscat to suppress slave trade [11] 1849 Treaty between Britain and Persian Gulf states to suppress slave trade [11] 1850 United States: Fugitive Slave Law of 1850 1854 Peru abolishes slavery [4] 1854 Venezuela abolishes slavery [4] 1855 Moldavia abolishes slavery. [14] 1856 Wallachia abolishes slavery. [14] 1860 Indenture system abolished in British occupied India. 1861 Russia frees its serfs in the Emancipation reform of 1861. [15] [3] 1862 Treaty between United States and Britain for the suppression of the slave trade (African Slave Trade Treaty Act) [11] . 1862 Cuba abolishes slave trade [4] 1863 Slavery abolished in Dutch colonies [4] 1863 United States: Emancipation Proclamation declares those slaves in Confederate-controlled areas to be freed. Does not include slaves in "border states" and Washington, D.C.. 1865 United States abolishes slavery with the Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution. [4] 1869 Portugal abolishes slavery in the African colonies 1871 Brazil declares free the sons and daughters born to slave mothers after 28 September 1871. 1873 Puerto Rico abolishes slavery 1873 Treaty between Britain and Zanzibar and Madagascar to suppress slave trade [11] 1874 Britain abolishes slavery in the(the Gold Coast (now Ghana) following it's annexation in 1874 (after Third Anglo-Asante War). 1886 Cuba abolishes slavery [4] 1888 Brazil abolishes slavery [4] 1890 Brussels Act - Treaty granting anti-slavery powers the right to stop and search ships for slaves 1894 Korea abolishes slavery [16] 1896 France abolishes slavery in Madagascar 1897 Zanzibar abolishes slavery [17] following it's annexation by Britain. 1906 China formally abolishes slavery and the law became effective on January 31, 1910, when all adult slaves were converted into hired labourers and the young were freed upon reaching age 25. [18] 1912 Siam (Thailand), formally abolishes all slavery. The act of selling a person into slavery was abolished in 1897 but slavery itself was not outlawed. [19] 1923 Afghanistan abolishes slavery [20] 1924 Iraq abolishes slavery 1924 League of Nations Temporary Slavery Commission 1926 Slavery Convention. Bound all signatories to end slavery Convention to Suppress the Slave Trade and Slavery (25 September 1926) 1926 Nepal abolishes slavery [21] [22] 1928 Iran abolishes slavery [23] 1928 Domestic slavery practised by local African elites abolished in Sierra Leone [24] (paradoxically established as a place for freed slaves). A study found practices of domestic slavery still widespread in rural areas in the 1970s. 1935 Italian General Emilio De Bono proclaims slavery to be abolished in the Ethiopian Empire [25] 1936 Britain eradicates slavery in Northern Nigeria [26] 1942 Ethiopian Empire abolishes slavery 1945 Nazi Germany and Militarist Japan, both with harsh systems of forced labor, defeated in World War II 1946 Fritz Sauckel, procurer of slave labor for Nazi Germany, convicted at the Nuremberg trials and executed as war criminal. 1948 UN Article 4 of the Declaration of Human Rights bans slavery globally [27] 1952 Qatar abolishes slavery 1959 Slavery in Tibet is abolished by China after the Dalai Lama flees. 1962 Saudi Arabia abolishes slavery 1962 Yemen abolishes slavery 1963 United Arab Emirates abolishes slavery 1969 Peru abolishes the encomiendas regime through a land reform[1] ending slavery in the country. 1970 Oman abolishes slavery 1981 Mauritania abolishes slavery
You already said you don't read my sources. Why should I read yours? As usual, you don't get that the issue isn't whether or not I care, but whether or not your argument makes sense, Jebediah.
Sam has stormed off in a rage. This would be the time for my public service announcement. Hi. I'm GeoffP. Some of you may know me from threads like these, where I battle with Sam about whether there's a Zionist Occupational Government, or my interesting discussions with Tiassa about honesty and libel. I just want you all to know that I actually do care. I just don't cut Jeb here any slack on calling her evidence. Thanks for listening.
If you claim to care but haven't read the Goldstone report and then ask inane questions about "intent" it just makes you the guy in class who didn't do the reading for it and makes it obvious by asking questions that the readings had covered. You're simply wasting our time.
First, who's "our"? Royal "our"? Secondly: cite a specific example and we can discuss it. I don't know why I bother to offer, when you've already implied that you don't consider either my arguments or my sources.
I fail to see Geofp and SAM why you two need to argue about this point. The fact is that neither side is going to accept a war crimes tribunel. Seriously, I would place my entire college fund on the fact that if some Palestinian or some Israeli were by some fashion declared a war criminal, that neither country would give that person up. The only solution is peace, all we have now is a pissing contest...
The Holocaust, Nazis saw people they didn't like and were more powerful then them, so they killed them. Slavery, Whites saw people that they didn't like and caused them to be slaves, and killed only some. Somehow I think slavery is a little less drastic than the holocaust.
I think dying is quicker and easier than generations of slavery. How many slaves were worked to death? Thats not how it works. You asked about intent. I pointed out the war crimes investigation. Now you read it and tell me what it says about intent to you. Let me know, after reading all 600 pages of the list of war crimes, if you think it was intentional or not. If you don't want to read it, don't ask stupid questions. It only makes you look ignorant in the face of overwhelming evidence.
It most certainly is how it works. You make a claim with a rule by which you define an event. If your own evidence doesn't support your claim on basis of your own rule, then your argument fails. This is basic stuff. You seem to grasp the intent issue after a few huffy sentences, but you missed the point for the purposes of the argument. Questions: 1. How could I look ignorant next to you? 2. Secondly, while I flip through the Report, maybe you can "edumacate" me on why it is I should be reading your references when you say you don't read mine? 3. Thirdly: not even Goldstone seems to call it genocide in the Report, so far as I've read. As I've said before, you lack a proof of intent, which is the basis of your claim as defined by your references. Nor is the Report actually 600 pages long, and it does not blame the Israelis alone, as you seem to think. I suggest you read the report also, because without so doing I have to say that you seem very foolish.
