Some facts about guns in the US

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by James R, Dec 17, 2012.

  1. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,493
    The jacket on a bullet is a hard metal covering over a soft core. It may be full or partial.

    The rounds referred to in post 1433 were all partially jacketed hollow points
    short list; we have
    unjacketed lead rounds(which some call dumdums)
    unjacketed lead hollow points
    partially jacketed(as above) rounds
    and
    Full metal jacketed rounds
    (there are many more variations)

    When you post "unjacketed rounds":
    You may be being imprecise.

    ..................................
    No choice of round nor weapon can make up for poor marksmanship.

    Which brings us to police issued weapons.(one size fits all?)
    Some people can hit damned near anything with any weapon.
    Some people cannot hit anything regardless of choice of weapon.
    And, then, there are the rest of us who are quite proficient with some weapons, and not with others.
    eg I could not miss with the M14, and was worthless as tits on a boar with the M1 carbine.
    and some weapons are more or less accurate with different ammunition---it gets confusing before it gets sorted out.
    It seems that it would be prudent to match the weapon to the shooter.
    ...............................................................
    damage done by 2 different rounds.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
    Truck Captain Stumpy likes this.
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,010
    So people who happen to be cops buy hollow-points. My question stands, "do cops use them". If you want to go Clinton on "use" then we're done here.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,564
    Not "people who happen to be cops" - law enforcement agencies who employ cops.
    The link names examples of police departments, law enforcement agencies, and the like, who buy or prescribe the ammunition listed, for use by their employees - the cops.

    Why is this an issue?
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Truck Captain Stumpy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    894
    yes, they do use them

    https://savannaharsenal.com/2016/10/04/currently-issued-handgun-ammo-for-law-enforcement/

    https://www.policeone.com/police-products/firearms/accessories/ammunition/

    Local LEO's here carry and are issued .45/9mm or 40 cal hollow-points and have a choice of ball or lead rounds for monthly shooting range practice requirements (they're also allowed to use their own ammo as long as they can show proficiency when tested, timing dependent, and usually determined by the admin, manning, staffing requirements and the state DOJ)

    You can see where state DOJ's will issue Calibre and weapons issue statements ( https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/.../doj-law-enforce-policy-procedures-manual.pdf ) but usually the local agency determines the round type (hollow point, FMJ, etc) for issue. They will also typically have a list of accepted ammunition to be used by the individual LEO on and off duty.
     
    sculptor likes this.
  8. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    22,832
    You left out Justin Bieber!


    Maybe, you should have stopped after your first sentence:

    And you know what?

    No one would have said anything. No one would have judged you. Everyone would just shrug and move on. It would show a breath of honesty.. We would all be like 'hey, he's honest!'..

    And we would be none the wiser that you are actually:

    Batshit crazy.
     
  9. Truck Captain Stumpy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    894
    just saw this sculptor
    because they tend to go through bodies mostly

    it's all about stopping power and transferring the energy of the round to the target
    the FMJ tends to go through whereas the engineered expanding round imparts more energy onto the body

    Cops have to consider that civilians may well be behind a criminal so it's prudent not to shoot ammo that tends to carry through objects easily and imparts as much force as it can to the target

    many cops that I know use FMJ's to practice because they're cheap but carry hollowpoints on duty for stopping power

    here's a good article on FMJ vs hollow points
    https://www.pewpewtactical.com/hollow-points-vs-full-metal-jacket-ammo/
     
    sculptor likes this.
  10. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,493
    perspective
    when hunting, I use soft points
    and they do go through the deer(leaving a big bloody exit wound)

    fmj nato rounds are less expensive and have a bit less power
    (I had considered cutting off the tips of the nato rounds thereby turning them into homemade soft points---but ain't done it[yet])
     
    Truck Captain Stumpy likes this.
  11. Truck Captain Stumpy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    894
    offered as feedback from friends to a friend
    I know a few folks who did this

    the feedback they gave me:
    if you're used to and more experienced with reloading then you can make a decent round for hunting, according to some who did it
    But, there are far more people who screwed it up than made a good round

    Personally, I've not done loading in a long while (for modern cartridges - I shoot a .50 TC Hawken most of the time) so I wouldn't do it. But in all honesty, I might consider doing it in the future as I's a be a mite po' & I's needs ta consider my options
    My youthful exuberance and care free days are catching up to me making it harder to stalk ... I can still bring it down if it's within 200 meters, but that also depends on my glasses not fogging

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!




    what are you using, if I may ask?

    are you sitting in a stand?

    mostly curious...
     
    sculptor likes this.
  12. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,493
    That kinda depends on where and when
    I tend to try to shoot what is legal at the time and place that I shoot
    (bow, shotgun, .50 muzzleloader, and the scoped long rifle).

    My current long rifle is a
    .308 using 150 gr. soft point ammo (I used a 300 win mag for many years---but haven't taken a shot over 200 yards in several years, and the recoil was beating up my shoulder and I was beginning to flinch----so I looked for an alternate means-including a muzzle break --and settled on the .308----old memories of the precision I had with the m14) (I tried my cousin's .30-06. and
    30-30)

    I would much prefer to just use one weapon all the time, but tend to not want to fracture any regulations too badly.
    Meanwhile
    I cut my finger while butchering the recent doe. I was trying to wipe the tallow off of the knife and slipped (it's a good thing that I like the taste of my own blood=== small cut, lots of blood which flushed out the wound quite nicely)---Today, I'll cook her loin "medallions" wrapped in bacon for the guests at my younger grand daughter's 1st birthday. Weather permitting: (it's supposed to get up to 32 degrees F) I'll start a fire in the outside fire pit and cook the venison over a cherrywood fire. (we also have some fresh mulberry wood----hmmm?)
     
    Truck Captain Stumpy likes this.
  13. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,010
  14. Truck Captain Stumpy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    894
    Nice! What kind?
    I have a Thompson Center Hawken, a self-built Hawken and a Pedersoli Tennesee Long, all in .50!

    Do you hunt with round or minne ball?

    I usually swap between recurve, Hawken and .223 (& occasionally a pistol)

    Mountains and woods here. shots over 200m are rare... I like the AK but settled on the more familiar AR because I've used it for decades (familiarity and low recoil)


    man, that sounds tasty!

    tell her I said HAPPY BIRTHDAY

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    bloody heat wave! LMFAO

    it's 31 here and iced with snow/sleet falling

    EDIT: decided to crock ours. it's a tenderloin from a hog, taken with a bow
     

Share This Page