Spinoff Thread:What Happens To The Conscious Awareness When We Die

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by LORD_VOLDEMORT, Feb 22, 2008.

Page 3 of 6
  1. LORD_VOLDEMORT

    LORD_VOLDEMORT Banned Banned

    Messages:
    704
    The evidence to you just being dead is concrete? Because many others do oppose.And i dont mean the religious goons.
     
    LORD_VOLDEMORT, Feb 22, 2008
    #41

  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Enmos

    Enmos Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    43,184
    The evidence for anything else is completely non-existent.
     
    Enmos, Feb 22, 2008
    #42

  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. LORD_VOLDEMORT

    LORD_VOLDEMORT Banned Banned

    Messages:
    704
    Prove it.
     
    LORD_VOLDEMORT, Feb 22, 2008
    #43

  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Aivar

    Aivar A.R. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    146
    how about you get on that end and try to prove, concretely, scientifically, that being dead is not the end of a consciousness?
     
    Aivar, Feb 22, 2008
    #44
  8. Yorda

    Yorda Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,275
    yeah, maybe...

    why would it do that? what's so important about self-preservation when there is no self anyway? and even if the self and mind/body split are illusions, it doesn't have to mean they are not real. maybe illusions are real too...
     
    Yorda, Feb 22, 2008
    #45
  9. Aivar

    Aivar A.R. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    146
    Well, who said there isn't a "self"? Sure there is, just about everyone agrees on that. But the said "self" is a mortal, requires a physical body and (unless you count religions and quackery) can die. Become no longer existing. And becase of mortality, it needs tools to survive.
     
    Aivar, Feb 22, 2008
    #46
  10. LORD_VOLDEMORT

    LORD_VOLDEMORT Banned Banned

    Messages:
    704
    To your knowledge.
     
    LORD_VOLDEMORT, Feb 22, 2008
    #47
  11. Aivar

    Aivar A.R. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    146
    Huh? No, it's scientifically proven. How? By results. Find and listen to some radio shows about neurochemistry. Psychatrists do those sometimes. You might get an actual understanding of the subject.

    Or you can try to find online arcticles, but I think a full radio show would be better for what you're looking for.
     
    Aivar, Feb 22, 2008
    #48
  12. LORD_VOLDEMORT

    LORD_VOLDEMORT Banned Banned

    Messages:
    704
    i was speaking the evidence of the split between mind and body.
     
    LORD_VOLDEMORT, Feb 22, 2008
    #49
  13. LORD_VOLDEMORT

    LORD_VOLDEMORT Banned Banned

    Messages:
    704
    In what way do you understand the opposing look toward it.It seem you havean open mind to both possibilities or at least theories or something.
     
    LORD_VOLDEMORT, Feb 22, 2008
    #50
  14. Enmos

    Enmos Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    43,184
    The brain is part of the body, but it is described separately.. the same way as the liver is a separate thing yet one with the body.
     
    Enmos, Feb 22, 2008
    #51
  15. LORD_VOLDEMORT

    LORD_VOLDEMORT Banned Banned

    Messages:
    704
    There others ways to look at it.I have read your arguments in the what is real thread.Others seem to think outside the box.
     
    LORD_VOLDEMORT, Feb 22, 2008
    #52
  16. Fraggle Rocker

    Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,690
    Well, for starters, it doesn't matter whether you make peace with it or not. You're still going to be dead some day. The universe doesn't care about you. You are just one more blob of matter and all the natural laws of the universe apply to you just like they apply to all other blobs of matter. Don't be overcome with human hubris.

    Why is this any more uncomfortable than the fact that our lives have a beginning? The universe is full of balance. We begin, we end, that's balance. The earth is going to die, the sun is going to die, it seems very likely that the universe itself is going to die. Once again, what makes you think we're so special that we should be exempt from what happens to everything else in the universe? That little glimmer in our brain pan that we call "consciousness"? There's good (but not yet convincing) evidence that all mammals and birds have some degree of consciousness. Are they exempt from all the natural laws too?
    You need to understand the scientific method. You're the one proposing the extraordinary hypothesis that humans are in some way different from every other object in the universe. So you're the one who must supply the extraordinary substantiation for it before we are even required to take you seriously. "Extraordinary assertions require extraordinary substantiation."

    And please stop talking about "proof." Scientific theories are never proven true, all we do is reduce the probability of them ever being proven false to the point that we're comfortable integrating them into the scientific canon. Some of our theories will be proven false, but so few that it won't upset the canon as a whole.
    It was not "very good." It was full of supernatural aspects. The fundamental premise of science is that the natural universe is a closed system whose behavior can be predicted by theories derived logically from empirical observation of its past and present behavior. This premise is a theory itself and it is recursive: It has been tested and peer-reviewed for about 500 years and it has not been disproved. Any hypothesis that stipulates an unobservable supernatural universe is by its very nature antiscientific: it essentially tells us to give up on science and accept the existence of the supernatural, which can never be tested by the scientific method so it must be taken on faith. Faith has no place here since this is a place of science and it is ruled by reason.
    The evidence is not scientific evidence, it is not based on empirical observation of the natural universe. It is not up to science to disprove it because it is an extraordinary assertion. It is up to the asserter to present extraordinary substantiation for this hypothesis before anyone needs to take it seriously.
    It is just as unscientific, or downright antiscientific, as the first one. It is founded on assertions concerning a supernatural universe.
    No, you've got it backwards. YOU need to come forward wiith extraordinary substantiation for your extraordinary assertion. You're not just saying you've discovered a new species of beetle on a mountain in Africa that has never before been visited by scientists. That is not an extraordinary assertion. You're saying that the canon of science, which has been painstakingly assembled by thousands of people using rigorous methods over half a millennium, and which has been aggressively tested and peer-reviewed without ever being disproved, is wrong. That IS an extraordinary assertion.
     
    Fraggle Rocker, Feb 22, 2008
    #53
  17. Enmos

    Enmos Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    43,184
    Huh ?
     
    Enmos, Feb 22, 2008
    #54
  18. decantemix

    decantemix Guest

    I'm of the opinion where it's factual case that some are "Memorialized", so to speak, and live eternally through a casting, you might say; that since there presence is physically absent, you desire them. Sorrow, remorse, missing someone.

    It's as if you _request_ their physical presence. Although no longer viable, you have them in your mind. And, has been my observation, they often cross the lips.

    This may be an attempt at contact, maybe. It's rather obvious that you intend to recall things, as you will. So, in fact, when you 'join' them again, you will have not "ceased" them.

    It's a rather strange notion. But, maybe being aware of there existence when they stop: Implies that there's a continuation. Of sorts...
     
    decantemix, Feb 22, 2008
    #55
  19. Yorda

    Yorda Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,275
    that's what you said to me in your previous life, so what are you still doing here?

    just because i can't prove it, doesn't mean it's not true.

    don't be overcome with scientific hubris. science can't explain everything... not today at least. in the future science will explain many things that are considered paranormal today, but it takes time, have patience and be openminded.

    matter eternally changes, but it's never destroyed. it never ceases to be. what makes you think we are different?

    eternal life is not against any natural laws.

    ok, here's proof: there are photographs of ghosts. proof 2: astral projections, NDE etc.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2008
    Yorda, Feb 22, 2008
    #56
  20. Myles

    Myles Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,553
    So do many things . What is your point ? Are you a Cartesian

    Edit. I see you are not a Cartesian.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2008
    Myles, Feb 22, 2008
    #57
  21. Myles

    Myles Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,553
    You are joking ?
     
    Myles, Feb 22, 2008
    #58
  22. Aivar

    Aivar A.R. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    146
    Just compare it to the horror of knowing you'll never escape life. Never get the final release of no longer existing. In time, a man would go mad and do anything for death. It may not look like that to people still young, but...
     
    Aivar, Feb 22, 2008
    #59
  23. LORD_VOLDEMORT

    LORD_VOLDEMORT Banned Banned

    Messages:
    704
    Certaintly possible.
     
    LORD_VOLDEMORT, Feb 22, 2008
    #60
Page 3 of 6

Share This Page