sport hunting

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by birch, Sep 5, 2010.

  1. birch Valued Senior Member

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    http://www.animalliberationfront.com/Practical/Fishing--Hunting/Hunting/FallacyofSportHunting.htm

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunting

    http://ezinearticles.com/?Sport-Hunting-Should-Not-Be-Banned&id=1578067

    yes, i'm sure animals enjoy being stalked knowing they are in danger of being killed.

    why is hunting considered okay in western culture? why is sport hunting considered okay? in some cases, owner's dogs are used to track and corner animals.

    i've seen hunters use bow and arrow to hunt deer. this is painful for deer and they don't die right away.

    if they have a gun, shouldn't they blow it's brains out so it won't suffer?

    where is the morals or outrage over nonpet animals?

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    Last edited: Sep 5, 2010
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  3. AJRelic Malformed Registered Senior Member

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    Hunting is to simply satisfy our instincts. Just as the article stated, there's pleasure in stalking and killing prey. Of course, this may sound like a poor reason, prompting the need to come up with less genuine excuses to our behavior, but it's a valid one nonetheless.

    If there wasn't any pleasure involved in hunting, then how would omnivores such as ourselves have made it this far without livestock? Personally I don't like to hunt, I hate hurting animals, but just because I don't share their reasoning doesn't make it any less valid. I do a bunch of things I probably shouldn't just because it makes me feel better.

    I believe most of the outrage over abused pets comes from the understanding these are domesticated animals that neither know how, or feel the need to defend themselves against a threat. We can hardly say the same of wildlife. Although I'm a firm believer that you should always eat what you kill...if not they should at least give away the meat, it would be such a poor waste otherwise.
     
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  5. WillNever Valued Senior Member

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    Deer can defend themselves? Think again. All they can do is try to run away. Furthermore, there is hardly anything "instinctual" about using a rifle you bought at k-mart to shoot and kill animals that have no chance of retaliating. Most people only want to hunt defenseless animals instead of dangerous ones. That is because they are cowards at heart.
     
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  7. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Outrage over what? That they are hunted by people that , in many cases, EAT THEM? If you are only wanting outrage over sport hunting where the game is killed ONLY for the thrill of it then I'm with you however many times the animals that are killed are given to people who want to eat them as well. There are a few, not the majority, that only hunt to watch animals die from their weapons. They are few in number and really do not take that many animals away from the total amount around. The bigger problem is poachers who only kill for profit, they are the very lowest form of human life there is.
     
  8. WillNever Valued Senior Member

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    Agree with the above. Killing and using the meat is okay. Killing for self-amusement is rather depraved.
     
  9. birch Valued Senior Member

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    uh, please give me a break. i've run into plenty of hunters in my lifetime and just about all of them hunt more for the pleasure of it rather than a hankering for venison or what have you. it's the thrill of the chase and feeling empowered. and how are poachers morally worse? for us or animals? so it's okay to you if someone kills you for sport because there are plenty of people around? that is basically your moral logic. that has nothing to do with morals actually. that is typical western reasonin and in this case is faulty, it's about practicality or saving a species and not about ethics.

    you are trying to justify hunting when it's not even necessary. is a person's pleasure more important than the suffering and killing of an animal? do you think animals like to be stalked which causes stress and fear? of course not.

    i just question the moral hypocrisy of it. also, most people keep carnivorous animals as pets that have been domesticated but all concerned about their innocence.
     
  10. AJRelic Malformed Registered Senior Member

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    The act of running way is certainly defensive, is it not? Point a gun at house dog and it'll probably lick the nozzle. Ever been bit by a deer? I'm sure it's pretty nasty.

    As I said in my previous post...the instincts are of stalking and killing a prey, where does Kmart come into all this? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not going to find animals to stalk at my local convenience store.

    So what if they are cowards? I think their goal is to satisfy themselves, not you.
     
  11. birch Valued Senior Member

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    faulty justification.

    the point is hunting is still aggression. how do you justify killing some animals because they can run away or know to run away? ridiculous.

    so if you know to run away form someone coming after you with a gun, it justifies the aggression? lol
     
  12. AJRelic Malformed Registered Senior Member

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    Well...to the person hunting of course it is. Otherwise why would they do it? Are you just stating the obvious?
     
  13. AJRelic Malformed Registered Senior Member

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    ? I wasn't trying to justify anything to you...I was explaining to WillNever that running away is in fact a defensive act. Hence attempting to explain the difference between domesticated and wildlife.

    I already explained to you why I think people hunt...please refer to original post if you missed it.
     
  14. birch Valued Senior Member

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    no, it just doesn't make sense that some animals are considered okay to hunt for sport and not others. it's not even based on intelligence or level of consciousness either.

    i didn't miss the point. you were implying that it's okay because if they are not domesticated and can defend themselves or know to defend themselves.

    it doesn't address that it's still aggression. it would be different if the animal were coming after you and one had to defend themselves. if someone were to break into your house, you would know to defend yourself but that doesn't justify the person breaking in.

    i think society has instilled that it's okay that some animals are 'not one of our tribe' so therefore okay but that's not about morals but find some contrived excuse which they label as moral. another strange tangent tact on often is that meat should not be wasted and if it's eaten, it's somehow more moral.

    i don't think the victim cares what you do after as much as what happens to it. this type of moral reasoning has nothing to do with the concern for the plight of the animal but it's all tossed together as if it's the same. the moral reasoning is that it's assumed the animal was not killed just out of gratuitous violence or pleasure but for survival. okay, but still that hardly has any concern for the victim or animal and that should be clear. lol

    if that was all, that would be more honest but they go further and use false and pseudo moralizing and that somehow cats and dogs are more sacred because they trust people as if that's some justification to use, even abuse and predate on other animals.

    heh, that's like saying it's okay for stranger to randomly target you for predation because you are not their personal friend even if you are minding your own business.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2010
  15. AJRelic Malformed Registered Senior Member

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    Three.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2010
  16. WillNever Valued Senior Member

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    Defensive would be fighting back. Exactly how does one get bitten by a deer? Deer run away from humans. They do not charge toward them. The people who are hunting are fighting defenseless animals who have no weapons to fight back with.

    But that's where you get the weapons from. Almost no one actually uses weapons they made themselves. And what instincts...? Whose instincts...? Most people have no interest in killing animals for no real reason. Most do not enjoy it. Could there be something wrong with ye who do? I think so.

    Their need to self-satisfy in this way should probably be addressed by professionals.

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  17. AJRelic Malformed Registered Senior Member

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    Well it's a good thing the world doesn't need to answer to you. Can you imagine every person being seen by "professionals" because they disagree with you? What a terrible place to live.
     
  18. WillNever Valued Senior Member

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    I'm wondering what environment you live in, that you think hunters back deer into such corners that the deer has nowhere to go and therefore will actually come *torward* a hunter to bite him. To put it another way, how likely is it that a deer will actually get an opportunity to bite a hunter before it's killed by his projectile from dozens of yards away? What mad skills. In the meantime, let's stick with reality, okay..?

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    Exceptions do not invalidate the rule. That is why they are called "exceptions." As well, your other replies are vague, ethereal tangents that no one except yourself could possibly appreciate.

    Eating isn't killing and people don't hunt because it's boring. Either the instincts that you have a hard-on for are too subdued to be worth factoring into the equation, or they don't actually exist. Sorry.

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    21.1% of Americans aged 18 and older suffer from a diagnosable mental disorder. I can imagine most or all people who hunt (6% of Americans) falling within that much larger pool of people. Now, I'm wondering if you are one of them too.

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    Last edited: Sep 5, 2010
  19. AJRelic Malformed Registered Senior Member

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    Well, if it means that I don't share your narrow and arrogant view of the world, I will be more than happy to be that 21%.

    Edit: If you don't wish to actually address the points I've made this time, don't expect a reply by me. You may actually make sense if you try to prove me wrong rather than attempt to discredit me.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2010
  20. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Well, today it really is just about that simple. Take a 4x4 out into the savanah and pick what you want to kill.

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  21. AJRelic Malformed Registered Senior Member

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    Fair enough. Although in my defense the guy should have some knowledge about the prey he's going for, proper maintenance of his gun, safety procedures to avoid injuries, proper firing positions as well as the ability to calibrate his rifle. He may know how to track as well. He should know this though, in all fairness, he may not.

    Edit: Allow me to rephrase. "Proper" hunting involves more than just pointing a gun and shooting.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2010
  22. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Safaris everywhere do everything for the hunter today. You just need money to go to a place that you can afford and they will provide you with everything, even the game you want.

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  23. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    How is sport fishing different than sport hunting?
     

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