Star Wars vs Star Trek

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by Pollux V, May 9, 2002.

?

Which universe would win?

  1. Star Trek

    227 vote(s)
    35.5%
  2. Star Wars

    268 vote(s)
    41.9%
  3. Spaceballs

    47 vote(s)
    7.3%
  4. Farscape

    12 vote(s)
    1.9%
  5. Dune

    50 vote(s)
    7.8%
  6. Stargate

    36 vote(s)
    5.6%
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  1. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Well, Matter/Anti-Matter drives produce incredible amounts of power - the Ent-D's reactor was, however, outclassed by the Romulan Warbirds reactor, which utilized a micro-singularity core to generate power. The Defiant class, however, is ON PAR with the D'Deredix (warbird) class in terms of power generation. It is safe to assume the Sovereign and Prometheus classes are on par as well. Now, considering we have ships able to generate power equal to the energetic release of a black hole... *shrugs* I doubt hypermatter could be much better... hell, I reckon Star Wars uses much LOWER power generation techniques, because we see WIRES in the consoles and walls of the Death Star for crying out loud... WIRES.

    The logic behind my argument is obvious - wires have a resistance, and their power capacity is limited via material type, length of the wire, compression of the wire, width and design of the wire (single large wire, multiple smaller strands, strands around a large wire, et al) heat and insulation... there's so many variables. However, it's safe to assume that basic wires cannot possibly transfer as much power as efficiently as a plasma relay system.
     
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  3. Nexarc Troper In Training Registered Senior Member

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    139
    This somewhat answers the question of hypermatter reactors as we all now know the GFFA is for some reason rather primitive for a more advanced than Trek (according to warsies) society. My guess is that they expanded too quickly using hyper-spatial tech and never truly cared about researching for better technologies in subspatial and real-space fields and refining existing tech (the only new tech they got in the EU as far as I can remember is the Suncrusher).

    However this hasn't answered my question about Trek hyperspace and if it truly is equivalent with its SW counterpart.
     
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  5. alpinedigital Registered Senior Member

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    370
    X-Wing Engine Diagram
    A good question is why an X Wing fighter engine would have similar function design to a typical jet plane engine. lol Just look at this diagram... and contemplate what part of this thing could 'jump' a ship into hyperspace. In the movies, they're just cruising along and then suddenly the stars are stretching... woosh!! oh!! they go so really fast!! :bugeye:
    There's no other visible reference to them transfering between normal space and hyperspace. But later, they seem to be inside a 'tunnel' which I imagine implies that if their route was off by even a hair, they'd be running into that stuff they're passing and share a seat beside the other ghosts at the end of Jedi.

    Why use it? Risky as all hell. Imagine how many people are scared of the local funpark rollercoaster. Tell them they'll be taking a 'cross-galaxy-or-die-trying' ride at faster than light speed, and 3 questions come to mind: 1. where's the fire? 2. what do I get if we make it alive? 3. do I look like I have a death wish? They'll assure me, of course, that there are safeguards in place and that if anything goes wrong, it will bring us out of hyperspace. The last question is, "what if the thing that goes wrong IS the safeguard?!" to which their response would be "nobody has EVER reported having a problem with the safeguard." :bugeye: Well, the theoretical science of pushing a ship into hyperspace with a theoretical safeguard in place leaves us to wonder, how would you go about safety-testing such a safeguard?

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    Well lets pretend I understand it... First, we have a means of mapping a straight shot thru space, planetary systems, debris fields, asteroid belts, spacial anomolies, temporal anomolies, gravitational fields, etc. in an ever-changing environment with zero tolerance and a prayer for not encountering any unknowns. Yeah, it could be done. I read somewhere that these jump routes were mapped out for a long time, and the data sold or traded or whatever, so the chance of this information being outdated or having an error would be pretty low. And I can't see anyone ever wanting to sell fake map data for gold pressed latinum, or sabotaging the safety systems.

    Not like some cultures would see that technology as being too big of an advantage to anyone who possessed it. A galactic Federal Express that could take a message to a reciever faster than subspace communications. LOL Yeah, I can see how many heads are gonna be at the bargaining table.

    Remember when metaphasic shields were being demonstrated? And thats just a shield upgrade... imagine what a mess there'd be for something with so much potential that could be integrated into even the crappiest space vessels... (hell they made 'em work for all the SW junk, didn't they?) But oh, there'd have to be people who see a threat to their way of life a worthy reason to start creating incidences as evidence that it was unsafe. One might even kill himself for the better good of his people if it meant people would turn away from that technology.

    So to wrap this up (Cuzz Abby just came on) I'd say there's a 50-50 chance hyperspace travel would last beyond the 'hype'.
     
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  7. Nexarc Troper In Training Registered Senior Member

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    139
    Guess the debate turns back to why SW never really cared for alternative technologies.
     
  8. alpinedigital Registered Senior Member

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    370
    dude... u didnt even mention the shirt.

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    LOL

    Here's something that I heard way way back, and it caught my attention enough to stick, but I don't remember when or where I heard it. But something tells me this might be related, or not, but as I said, I dunno where I got this.

    Was it 'laser, and then 'phased laser' and that was shortened to 'phaser'?

    I stumbled onto this while digging for verification:
    US Patent 6693943 - Phased laser array for generating a powerful laser beam (issued 2-17-2004)

    MPLE (multi-element phased laser emiter)

    Phase modulation (PM) is a form of modulation that represents information as variations in the instantaneous phase of a carrier wave.
    Unlike its more popular counterpart, frequency modulation (FM), phased modulation is not widely used.

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    An example of phase modulation. The top diagram shows the modulating signal superimposed on the carrier wave. The bottom diagram shows the resulting phase-modulated signal.

    Im not much into science but I think I half-ass understand this stuff. Lets say phased modulation is to lasers as the brown noise frequency is to audio... pretty much when you're faced with either one, your reaction is 'Oh shit!'

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    But seriously, perhaps phased laser and phaser aren't at all related, but its part of a puzzle that I obviously need more pieces to complete.
     
  9. Nexarc Troper In Training Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    139
    Sorry, deleted it in the reply for I am new to the forums and the boards have a temporary picture and link limit until i reach 20 posts or something. :wallbang:

    I think that during TOS it actually was a shorthand term for phased lasers. However TNG retconned those into PHASed Energy RefractionS probably to prevent confusion.

    It seems that now phaser beams are made of fictional particles called rapid-nadions which are produced when plasma excites a special crystaline matrix within the phaser emitter. The nadions are slightly out of phase with the surrounding enviornment and overwhelm the strong-nuclear force within atoms, causing anything from a mild stun to full disintegration of the target.

    I think it was explained earlier but I doubt anyone can look through all 800+ pages.
     
  10. Nexarc Troper In Training Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    139
    Just to follow up to anyone who still don't know, my browsing through wookiepedia suggests that the Star Wars' EU had retconned their turbolasers to mean the weapon itself is called the laser and they actually shoot highly energetic plasma. Too bad plasma weapons are STILL INFERIOR to phaser and disruptor weaponry.

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  11. alpinedigital Registered Senior Member

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    370
    Well of course until next month then it'll be super duper mega energetic...

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    But while we're on the subject of Star Wars. Can somebody remind me where were all the star destroyers at the end of Star Wars? Death Star was destroyed, rebels primary goal achieved, but what the hell? Rebels should have mopped up after, and then if Vader bitched out and fleed home, wouldn't he just flip a 180 and lead 15 star destroyers back to their target and finish what they started? I'd have been so pissed, I'd have destroyed THAT son of a bitch AND whatever planet that was in the way that had them waiting. Better yet, just cause an E.L.E. by destabilizing the planet's core and let the show begin. have some target practice too if any of'em try to escape.
     
  12. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    13,105
    FYI: The most searched tag on Sciforums is "STAR TREK", Star wars isn't even second....
     
  13. alpinedigital Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    370
    is it inappropriate to ask if anyone wants to extend this argument to a particular ST vs SW youtube video comments page? There's at least 1 or 2 people who talk the talk but tries to act like a the Dungeon Master of scenarios.

    The last BS he submitted is that "SW vs ST is invariably Empire vs Federation, that's the whole point about it really.

    since The Empire are predominantly humans, as is the Federation, it comes down to largely humans vs humans with some aliens on either side."

    My response: " humans may have founded the United Federation of Planets but isn't there a list of over 1/2 a dozen species that joined? Pretty sure at least politically that puts Humans as only a fraction of which species make up the Federation.
    Now dig up your standard technicality, as you usually do."

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  14. Corten Registered Member

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    Best part of this whole thread.
     
  15. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Phaser = Phased Energy Rectification.

    http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Phaser
     
  16. Nexarc Troper In Training Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    139
    Hehe...very close considering I was trying to remember off the top of my head

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  17. Nexarc Troper In Training Registered Senior Member

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    139
    Well youtube comments for me tend to distract me from the video so normally I just ignore them. There are very stubborn Warsies out there who never even seen ST and think of it as "weaker and less advanced" than the "almighty" SW universe.

    I myself unfortunately used to be the same way. I always thought an SD would destroy a Trek ship because I truly never knew what Trek ships were capable of. I became interested in ST to see why Warsies were being so restless and saw the UFP as equal to and actually surpassing SW in almost everything except FTL speed.

    Even the fandoms tend to embody the franchises they represented. I saw most Trekkies & Trekkers as being rather calm and logical compared to the far more numerous and vocal SW fans who were being violent and resorting to personal attacks if they are proved wrong (though I know not all Warsies are as bad). I began to distance myself from the rabid SW fans and then a couple years ago I had the wonderful pleasure of stumbling upon SD.net. That pushed me over the edge and straight into the Trek fandom.

    I now think ST ships are more than capable of destroying SW capital ships (minus of course both universes' uber-weapons) but I will allow compromise and say SD's & SSD's are the few ships that will prove tough to fight depending on the factors of the battles what we are discussing. Until I see absolute proof that SW is as powerful as people claim them to be I stand by my ground and help where I can.
     
  18. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Just a note, in regards to more Future Fed tech:

    The Enterprise-J was seen only in the background in the form of graphics on a computer screen, rather than a CGI model.

    The studio model for the Enterprise-J was built by Doug Drexler and called a Universe-class ship, about two miles in length. Drexler saw it "as a multi-generational vessel, that had large parks, entertainment zones, and entire universities on board. The ship is so large that turbolifts would be replaced with site to site transporters. [It] had one deflector, recognizably descended from the NX. I opted for spindly nacelle struts because I felt it suggested a technology beyond what we were familiar with. They are beyond transwarp. They can fold space, and they are exploring other galaxies besides the Milky Way." According to Rob Bonchune, "From what I understand, it was done quick and dirty, so was not really detailed in any way like a model we would use in multiple shots."

    Booyah, Federation future ships can fold space ala dune... without the explody bits

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  19. alpinedigital Registered Senior Member

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    and then what is THIS?

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  20. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Dark Frontier isn't actually canon material. It's a fan series, if I'm not mistaken

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  21. alpinedigital Registered Senior Member

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    370
    I didn't think it was, just curious.
     
  22. Lord Vasago bcd Registered Senior Member

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    so what if the main gun is only practical vs starbases/planets.
    destroying every shipyard and primary planets would make them shiver and beg for mercy. and then we welcome them to the New and improved Empire lmao

    while hundreds of tiny and not so tiny vessels keep your "highly agile" vessels busy a few eclipse stardestroyers would be hyperjumping all over the place destroying everything sacred to the feds. leaving them no other option then surrender.
     
  23. Lord Vasago bcd Registered Senior Member

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    who said that Q are omipotent and omnipresent ???? oh yeah i forgot Q himself

    yeah wright and god created the sun, earth, water and life in zeven days lmao

    the only prove Q has are his words. and a few "pretty awesome" powers. but nothing that can't be replicated by machines.
     
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