Star Wars vs Star Trek

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by Pollux V, May 9, 2002.

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Which universe would win?

  1. Star Trek

    227 vote(s)
    35.5%
  2. Star Wars

    268 vote(s)
    41.9%
  3. Spaceballs

    47 vote(s)
    7.3%
  4. Farscape

    12 vote(s)
    1.9%
  5. Dune

    50 vote(s)
    7.8%
  6. Stargate

    36 vote(s)
    5.6%
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  1. Lord Vasago bcd Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    827
    My point is that it is ridiculous and just plain stupid to allow a holodeck materialise stuff. a lot off things can go wrong and did in several episodes.
    If by some kind of malfunction (intended or not) you risk the life of your crew i find that very disturbing.
    Injuries can always occur like you stated and that is a calculated risk. but would you let your employees toss around a loaded gun and trust the safety never fails?
    Broken bones is something that isn't a problem in St. go visit docter Beverly and she'll fix you up. but dead is dead.
     
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  3. Lord Vasago bcd Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    827
    a high difinition sound recorder for the voice and replicator for key would do the trick.

    as for accessing a panel hmmmm let me think. No matenence-guy/girl/droid? (sorry for bad writing) can be perfect all the time. forced or bad intentions
     
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  5. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    Actually, even the best sound recorder would not work - the human voice has specific tonals (not tones, tonals) that are unique to every individual. A recorder cannot mimick these perfectly, and thus would fail

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  7. alpinedigital Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    370
    The benefit outweighs the risk, like being aboard a starship exploring space where there are obvious dangers and beings with evil intent.

    If I remember right, the holodeck uses replicator and transporter technology so if you want to eat, you'd get the same food as the replicator would give.

    [quick search]
    "A holodeck combines transporter technology with that of replicators, by generating holographic images in 3D space as well as projecting force fields to give the objects the illusion of substance."

    Holodecks are not only there for entertainment purposes. They also serve as an advanced simulator so in some instances, tests need to be done with no safety to get more accurate results. As for the potential harm it can do, the risk is negligible when compared to the potential dangers we face in real life anyway since hardly anything is 100% fail-safe.
     
  8. Lord Vasago bcd Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    827
    so your telling me that a race that can build spaceships and explore space, meet aliens, fight far more advanced foos can't build a machine that mimics a persons voice? sure even data can't do it ? or georgi ? or wesley ?
     
  9. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    It's not physically possible in nature- I guess since it's sci-fi they could, but eh...
     
  10. alpinedigital Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    370
    Yes, Data can bypass securities with voice code by simulating someone's voice. Actually Wesley Crusher has also shown the ability to record and use voices to bypass codes. Voice isn't the only way either, you can simply swap out some isolinear chips to bypass security. But its no different than shooting the lock on a door and walking right in. Security is effective only for casual lock-out of personel, children, species that don't know the technology... but for high rank officers and those who study the security methods, they can easily bypass most low-level security. Since the holodeck is normally not a threat to others, I'd imagine its a pretty low-level security for higher ranking officers, about like bypassing locks on crew quarters. If it was that serious a problem, they could simply use encrypted codes combined with voice authorization from 2 command level officers like 1st officer and captain.

    But really - the holodeck was never meant to be presented as a really dangerous threat to users. But just as transporter technology isn't normally risky, it can also have problems that result in death. The point is, lots of technology can be misused or abused for harmful purposes. You could reconfigure a medical tri-corder to show a medical need for a medicine that would kill you, or configure a phaser to self-destruct, or replicate enough water to drown yourself.

    So this arguing about something not being safe? It's really stupid.
     
  11. ProphetofWisdom Almighty Tallest Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    297
    Will I just shot that down with other canon sources from SW books. And sorry to tell you this, but it is not G canon since we never see 200GTon screen. And on where I shot down the wank-a-tons: my Halo vs Star Wars thread.


    And then later an ateroid seems to vaporize an ISD bridge tower...you either agree that ISD hulls are weak or throw out the asteroid.
     
  12. Lord Vasago bcd Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    827
    1. who says the tower was vaporised ? It could just been smacked of.
    2. do you know the size, matter and velocity of that peticular asteroid?
    3. do you know if the isd has had multiple hits or it was just this one?

    sorry but these are things you have to consider before saying ISD hulls are weak.
     
  13. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    The tower is vaporized - you can tell because we don't see it spinning off into space

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    It's gone mate... trust me... it's gone. I've looked at it every way I can.

    Size, matter, and velocity of that asteroid doesn't really matter - a powerful star ship should be able to either avoid, deflect, or destroy an incoming asteroid like that. If it can't do any of those three, what's the point?

    We can assume it was just that one as it's the only one we see

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  14. alpinedigital Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    370
    I think it was good construction to have it rip away. There's only a few ways the force of the asteroid could be handled by the mass of the ship - either the tower rips away, or the tower constuction allow such a mass to punch a hole thru it, or the tower stays intact and whatever its connected to rips away.

    The force of the asteroid would be absorbed into the energy of the mass velocity, so if the whole ship stays intact, the whole ship feels the impact because the 'inertial dampers' cant compensate for the transfer of so much energy to the entire ship. Best its only transfered to part and have it break away like formula 1 cars... they shatter and disperse the energy of a wreck so the driver doesn't get the full brunt of the impact.

    But where's the warning for the asteroid, and didn't two ISDs graze each other in one movie?


    [Edit] hahah watching Star Wars Tech on History Channel... a great show that describes how gay some of the unique SW tech is. Well actually it shows how much is somewhat plausible... Still don't think any of it is that impressive. Even the little holo-emitters have poor quality. What's up with that?
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2009
  15. Lord Vasago bcd Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    827
    no kitt you want to assume that it was only that one because you see only one. that is a huge difference. A ship 1,6km long in a dence asteroidfield so let's be a little logical please.

    you just can't avoid, deflect or destroy every single asteroid in an asteroid field because deflecting or avoiding can make things even more dangerous. so the logical path to choose is to focus on the large onces. but the problem is that many small onces combined can have simular affect on your shields even in ST. btw i never saw a scene in ST that takes place in a dence astrofield like in SW. if they did can you give me a link?
     
  16. Nexarc Troper In Training Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    139
    As for the asteroid and the ISD grazing, most of us know that while ISDs can reach good speeds in a linear direction, they are very poor in overall maneuverability. By the time they would have seen a object on a collision course, they won't be able to move away on time.

    That Hist.Ch. show was itself impressive in attempting to explain the SW physics, but although the tech is more advanced than today, they are still overall less advanced than ST. I tend to reason that by saying that the galaxy has been stagnant for thousands of years due to peace in the Republic. Nearing the movie era, most GFFA governments began to be worried about military or political threats so began to deal with tech that will achieve peace or in the CIS' and GE's case, control.

    They took existing ships and weapons and only made them bigger for a psycological effect of fear and power. Refining holo-emitters and other non-essentials are placed on the back burner and are now showing their low quality by the late Republic-early Empire eras.

    ST had a similar period between the Kirk and Picard eras, the only true breakthrough I can remember is replicator tech. This period only lasted about 80 years until contact with the Borg. Soon after, Starfleet began to upgrade rigorously and produced marvels such as ablative armor and regenerative shielding as well as ships like the sovereigns, akiras, defiants, etc. This helped somewhat prepare for the Dominion War, the UFP needing to merely ramp up production and install the new tech. With the threat of the Borg and increasing instablility of the political playground, ST will not be able to slack off in R&D and can't stop refining tech until the near-impossble task of fully destroying the Borg occurs.
     
  17. alpinedigital Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    370
    In Star Trek Enterprise, right off hand, they landed a shuttle on one of the bigger asteroids to mine something from its core. In Next Generation, The Pegasus they were in a pretty dense asteroid field.

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    *cross references a few more*
    Next Gen: Galaxy's Child,
    Voyager:Homestead
    Enterprise: Shuttlepod One

    I guess you could find a few others but there's really no point in it. To me, it seemed kinda silly that there wouldn't be a warning system because computers should be able to track the heading of the objects in that vicinity. Especially one the size of a star destroyer. The whole idea of 3 in such close proximity that such a thing would happen... re-frickin-diculous.
     
  18. ProphetofWisdom Almighty Tallest Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    297
    I'm just going to answer 1 for right now: watch the other side of the tower and you will notice it disapears when the asteroid hit. And I must point out that even if they had 200GT weapons why would asteroids even be a threat when shields are up since they could stay in there for weeks then?
    Or are just making them easy targets for UNSC MAC guns?
     
  19. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    So, you're saying then that they CANNOT vaporize the asteroids entirely? Even with all those guns at such high power outputs?

    You have to see it yourself - something SIMPLY does not compute here... if they have all that firepower, with a dozen ships total, they should have been able to all but remove the ENTIRE asteroid field...
     
  20. Nexarc Troper In Training Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    139
    Warsies claim that we have bad continuity problems. This right here suggests that not only does SW have the same problems, some occur in the same movie. This is made even worse considering that the same ISD whose bridge is destroyed is shown intact later on.
     
  21. Lord Vasago bcd Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    827

    thx for the info; nice pic btw
     
  22. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Regarding the Asteroid scenes in Empire Strikes Back.

    The Hoth Asteroid Swarm is unlike any other asteroid belt we would know of. The swarm in question is from the collision of two earth sized bodies. These bodies were completely solid, instead of the molten core we have. The collision was also so violent as to shatter both bodies. It was also fair recent in stellar terms only a thousand years old at most. This collison was just outside the hoth system and thanks to it's youth very unstable with many, many moving objects in the swarm. The asteroid in question were also composed of many heavy metal ores making scanning a problem as scans were either absorbed or refracted by the asteroids themselves. This is completely unlike our asteroid belt or any Swarm seen in ST. In the former the density is so low as you could stand on one asteroid and not be able to see the next closest one with the naked eye. In the later the asteroid swarms in St are very, very stable with little to no internal movement.

    Now ISD were actively clearing paths as quickly as their weapons could cycle and as gunners could acquire targets. In such a swarm even a hundred gunners with the rapidest of weapons are going to miss a few fast moving objects. Still as in the scene of the asteroid impacting the Bridge tower. Since that was the Avenger, which lost it Holonet transmitter thanks to the impact, and we later see the Avenger chasing down the Millenium Falcon with minimal damage, it is safe to assume that the asteroid Impact did not destroy the ship.

    As for technological advancement. ST is only 400 years more advanced than current day technologies and in a few areas is actuall behind current technology. SW is set rougly 6 billion years ago and they have had Hyperdrive for 25,000 years. They have had the fastest form of FTL for longer than we've had recorded history. They have had artificial intellignce mimicking human behaviour for millenia. They have energy weapons so powerful that they have recoil and stopping power. A blaster can knock a man down as surely as a Shutgun blast, but we know they fire a massless particle that should not be able to do that. They have perfect antigravity and gravity generation. They have developed shields that you can fire out of, but not into. They have devoloped a bacteria that can heal almost any wound in a matter of hours. How is this not light years ahead of ST? hell the only thing that ST has that SW doesn't is Transporters. After all lifesupport on ships is nothng more than a specilized replicator.

    Finally is ST you hear about only a few independant operators. Very few ships are not owned by a government and none of those were legally armed. Meanwhile even under the Empire even simple freighters were allowed heavy artillery in case of pirate attack. And there were countless owner/captain of non military vessels. Hell some even owned decommissioned military vessels that were lightly rearmed but still had military shielding.
     
  23. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Char here's canon for you.

    Heavy Turbolaser 200 gigatons of firepower or roughly 800 billion gigawats

    Outpout of the Federation Galaxy class Starship Warp Core = 12 billion gigawats

    Do you see a difference?



    Okay if all parties are part of this there are super beings to face the Q name Yuuzhan vong worldships, Ang-Tii monks, and if it comes down to it Luke or Jacen (both have done more impressive things that Q has). Species 8472 would find their match met in the Vong, who could easily kill off the species with any number of parasites or diseases.

    Star Wars wins becuase it is the technologically and metephysically superior universe. There is no comparison between the two. Yes ST has a sleeker look, but SW has far superior technology, far superior mystic arts, far superior super beings. and far superior story lines. I love trek but in this conflict it loses. But honestly it's just becuase it is war.


    If the two universe met on more amicable terms there would be quite a different story going on. Imagine the the merging of Federation and Alliance technologies. 2 kiliometer long ships using warp drive for tactical moving and hyperspace for strategic. using transporters to beam over droid boarding parties and R2 units to cripple the other ship. Imagine a Phaser ramped up to 800 billion gigawat. Imagine firing patterns of dozens of QuantumProton Torpedoes. Imagine Transwarp cannons (piece of nickel accelerated to transwarp), Imagine Jedi trained Betazeds. Imagine thousands of Datas all using light whips as mellee weapons. Imagine klingon and wookie secuirity teams armed with vibroblades and bowcasters.........Would the rest of the universe stand a chance? The Borg would be gone in days. the Voth would avoid contact. The Dominion would be history. The Hunters taken out. The Galaxy would be under the benevolent leadership of the Federated Aliiance....Now can we at least agree on that?
     
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