Star Wars vs Star Trek

Poor quality ???? Live-stream over thousands of lightyears. mmmmm wouldn't exactly call that poor quality.

as for leia's message to obi-one. let me think .... she's hunted by Vador, HASTLY leaving a mesage in a droid. hmm whats more important ? that you see a file that can be hidden secretly in a droid or High difinition full color ?

 

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And yet he still insists Wars would win...

 

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*loud buzzer noise* Wrong.
I can't speak about SW books but the story lines in the movies are so poor I wouldn't bother reading them. Character personalities are so shallow, that almost any Jedi could be replaced by a different Jedi character and it wouldn't make any difference. They all talk the same talk, and it's REALLY boring.

It's like Vulcans - same thing... logical talk, always the same, but Vulcans are only 1 of many characters and Trek characters have had the screen time to be developed and their backgrounds explored. SW seems to have tried this by going back to look at a handful of key characters, and although the events shed some light, we should understand - logically - that the characters won't have the depth of Trek characters with so much more screen time to present the substance that makes up their personality. So I fail to see how the storyline is superior in ANY way. Especially when it seems its all about good guys vs bad guys. Trek stories have examined the nature of so many seperate things that it clearly has a far better story line just based on the agenda of the main characters. Exploring trumps the hell out of conquering because of the abundance of new interesting story line material.

Far superior beings? Must also be in some book I haven't read. And see, I can only ask, how exactly all the SW stuff was presented. I'm not going to try digging, you can answer this: Was it a book, then movie, or screenplay, movie, book second movie... what order was it? Looks to me like books were the method of expanding on SW, elaborating on what there wasn't time to explain in movies, and of course adding more powerful characters and weapons and shit.

As far as I've seen on screen - I don't see any characters with much more power than basic telekinesis, telepathy with power of suggestion... oh wait... electricity bolts from the fingertips - NICE. Raiden was my favorite Mortal Kombat character. But no, the Force never impressed me much... not even as a kid. And answer this... I've seen Vader drop from a high place and sort of float down... like he used the force to slow his decent. If they can lift a ship out of a swamp, how come they cant levitate? This powerful emperor that Vader tosses over the side... wait. You're going to say he didn't have the strength left after his electrical attacks. So this... Force... is exhausting unless used in moderation? Seems to me quite the stupid move to ever use it to the point where you couldn't levitate, just in case you needed a quick escape and want to fly away.

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And I imagine in the books they can fly, right?...

Oh well, again. Whoopty-do on the whole super powerful weapons that they'll undoubtely have to worry will fall into enemy hands. Many stories describe this, so we have to assume that will be high priority for ST in a conflict- get control of the ships/weapons tech. As for shields, SW says they're super powerful, but to what end? Is there absolutely no way to disrupt them to use transporters or mental attacks? In my opinion, if there's ANY vulnerability to SW shields, then you might as well just hand over an ISD to the Borg. Oh, and Data still remembers where to locate the species that erased the Enterprise D's memories... *looks for the title, stumbles onto something else impressive* When the Bow Breaks: "A planet formerly existing only in legend uncloaks and requests help from the Enterprise."

Cloaking a whole planet?? Not frickin bad...

I just have to think SW super power would be no match for the combined, almost limitless wealth of species with so much tactical wizardry... its just a matter of remembering which species has what's necessary to turn the tables... period.

Empire vs Federation only - Empire 70%
SW vs ST galaxy - Trek 98%

Don't forget: If Death Star can be used though both were destroyed, then Trek gets 'One'.

 

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Actually, this would happen more likely than not, except the Federation would be offering AMNESTY to the Rebel Alliance and saving their butts.

 

Ah, but Trek can do both

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Actually I think its likely the quality is based on the fact that when SW came out, we didn't know what we could achieve in hologram quality. They're barely now just getting things to look pretty good...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thOxW19vsTg

Then again, hardly anything in SW has a 'new and improved' look. Everything looks old and worn, broken in... only thing that looks nice are light sabers and that chrome ship which looked pretty dumb alongside everything else. It's all about the war with them, no time to paint anything or try to have it looking nice. They need somebody to pimp their rides worse than anything I've ever seen.
Oh wait, end of Star Wars, 3PO and R2 all polished up... shit, if they wanted SW to be more realistic, they should have everything break down like the Falcon does...

 

trek would win. their ships go a whole lot faster.

The galactic empire controls a small section of the galaxy.

trek commands a quadrant.

following that arguement stargate could argueably be the best because not only can they move from one end of the galaxy to another in seconds via stargate and months via ship, but can do the same to get from one galaxy to another.

Stargate would either win or tie, they could neevr lose cause all they need to do is run away to another galaxy, the only thing that the empire or trek could attempt to do is to go throught he stargate, but since they have no vehicles they would probably get massacred.

And even if by some miracle star wars made a beach head on that galaxy, all they gotta do is move to another.

Stargate would never lose to star wars or trek for the simple reason that they can evacuate from one galaxy to another and theres nothing wars or trek can do about it.

and before any trekys point out that 8472 opened up a portal to the galaxy and could do it where and when they liked, if i rememebr correctly it was the brog that did that and i doubt their gonna do that again.

 

EXcuse me???? If Trek could wouldn't voyager just have to call home to let the federation know where they are ???? they couldn't even find earth ffs

Most of the time the federation uses videomessages or video live-stream.
the only times i've seen holografic comunications is when vessel are in the same solar system.

 

Kitt just look at the asteroidscene again please, then you find out that indeed there are some verry fast ones and they fly in every singel direction and you see the falcon hit plenty of times by car-sized asteroids. Asteroids that can level a city i may ad.

plus there are some pretty big ones al in a extremely dence asteroid field.
for a very skilled person like han solo the odds of surviving the field are 3280 to 1 (or something close to that). yet look at the speed he is flying tru the field.

 

You have to remember - Trek does both via relay stations. When they were flung into Borg space, there were no relay stations. Ships leaving "known" space leave behind small relay bouys every so often to bounce the signal off of. Voyager had neither to work with.

And to be honest - what'st he POINT of holographic messages? No real reason for em... but you KNOW the Feds have better holo-technology. The EMH is a prime example of that... a standard holographic doctor that actually grew to become a sentient hologram program... incredible.

 

Uh... problem here.

You're telling me that the Falcon, which is at best 30 meters long can withstand an impact from an asteroid that is 5 or 6 meters in diameter... yet a Star Destroyer, at 1606 meters long, was unable to withstand the impact of an asteroid 30 meters in diameter?

The falcon was only 6 or so times larger than the asteroids you say hit it... the SD is over 50 (FIFTY) times larger than the asteroid that hit it...

Something is definately wrong here... either ISD's use shield and weapons tech comparable to the Falcon (which indicates a SERIOUS lack of large-scale weapon power) or you're wrong, or there is a GRAVE error in the movie itself.

The ISD is gone. Trust me... watch the scene as many times as you like. Take as MANY screenshots as you can. If you can show me the bridge after the impact, I'll concede the point.

I want timestamps on all photos... not that I don't trust you, but I dont' trust you :bugeye:

 

lol fail

Doesn't matter what's more important... thing is, it was a crappy Leia hologram. But you can blame that on that busted ass R-2 unit... P.O.S. Doesn't even have voice, just dumb tweets and chirps and crap. And we're supposed to believe people understand it. lol whatever

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^This one isn't too bad tho. Of course, the way I see it, the original SW films had junk, and they got a make-over so they looked better and at the same time, so did a bunch of the technology. In the books they go even further... just tricking out everything. And it's not enough to have laser tech, they have to just pronounce its 20 trillion billion Super-Uber-Megaton everything. whatever. Lets just write a novel and say Trek gets advanced SuperUberPlus1...

 

wow.... from 05-09-02, 07:48 PM and 826 pages long... this must be the longest continual thread ever on the internet...

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Close, the major ST powers such as the Federation, Klingon Empire and the Former Romulan Empire (if we are considering the post-Hobus supernova era) control a combined area of a quadrant with the lesser powers of Ferengi, Breen, etc. having smaller areas in the outer regions.

The Empire may have controlled a larger area (upwards towards half the GFFA) yet the political field is so unstable they may only have FULL control of a smaller area.

As for the speed, standard warp is slower, but most transwarp drives are faster than hyperdrives.

Doesn't SW rely on the Holonet in a similar manner? As a hyperspace NETWORK, it would be a bunch of RELAY STATIONS to BOOST communications. I presume that isolated, SW shipboard transmitters have a small range of a few lightyears.

Just learned that holograms are standard communications for BOTH franchises. Trek viewscreens are just very flat holodecks. The main difference is that while SW has 3D displays, ST transmits not only higher quality signals to a flat screen, they are IN COLOR!

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And most of it is random barking and very repetative.

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here are my thoughts on the SW social and tech dynamics;

they had hyperdrive for 25000 years (at least) and they are stuck with it. it is not the fastest nor the safest way to travel observed in SF. the model empire for SW was the Asimov's Empire in Foundation which had it's own hyperdrive existed for about 30000 years but it was a "jump" drive (instant travel) and they continously improved on it by shortening the calculation times, jump precision, energy consumption, series of jumps that could be made in one interval, lenght of a jump and so on.

their basic weapons are unchanged for at least 25 years (movies) and thousands of years (EU). they may have got bigger but that is quantity not quality.

their AI and droid tech is at a standstill in all perspectives. same astromecs and protocol droids and capabilities for thousands of years.

in opposition to this the ST universe (although slow by modern standards) is quite dynamic. the warp drive existed for only several hundred years with contemporary races (Klingons, Vulcans, Romulans (if they still exist)) and elder races like Borg or Voth that exited for thousands of years have developed their own alternatives (transwarp) that mach or surpass SW hyperdrive. even the newer races have begun to develop such techs within their short history (sleepstream, coaxial warp) some of which are instant travel. the last generation of ST wars revealed a big boost in new weapons and shielding that became standard by the times of ST Nemesis.

saying that tech in SW is more advanced because it has been around for 30 milenia. it's like saying egiptian chariots were more advanced then roman legions because they were 3000 years older and constantly perfected.

 

there is no problem. The millenium is a 30m dishlike vessel witch is piloted bij two skilled pilots. a isd is 1600m and piloted bij a whole deck.

if you see how th falcon must manouvre between the asteroids and still gets hit we can assume that the isd is hit plenty of times. in the end your shields will weaker. BTW there is a SSD flying trough that dence field.

btw i find it ridiculous that you base your whole shields are weak thing on the fact that a asteroid smacked of a isd tower. yet ST shield are so powerfull because it can deflect a few peaces of debri from a warbird.

ST shields good = bounced debri
SW shields good = bounces asteroids
ST shields poor = unshielded slow vessel rams a advanced fully shielded scimitttar.
SW shields poor= isd bridge get smakked of after multiple asteroid impact.

 

No, ST Sheilds good because they are pretty much programmable. They can be altered to deflect specific energies, depending on the situation. Of course most times they use a standard shield format but they also have many scenes where they change the shield configuration.

Hell, everything in Star Trek is configurable. That's why their tech stuff trumps SW crap all the time. Their weapons have settings, the transporters have settings, shields, holograms, everything. If its not as powerful, I'm sure there's a button that can change that.

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Otherwise, just send "Scotty", O'Brien, La Forge, Torres, and Seven to go engineer something and by the end of the episode, they can disable anything. LOL

 

Also SW has such little innovation

Look at the changes between the clone wars and the rebels.

they still use laser absed weapons, no improvement in firepower
the capitol ships are still in all practicality the same exact design with a few changes.

etc.

Almsot no innovation whatsoever,

the reason trek and star gate could easily beat SW is because they prize innovation, science, reason above all else, they challenge themselves to do better to ask questions, to question themselves.

look at voyager and the episode endgame.

Between the time period of the current janeway and the 40 years older and future janeway look at the incredible innovations.

1.) time travel to any part of the galaxy versus warp 8 or 9 or whatever.
2.) a weapon that can destroy a borg cube which is 1 x 1 x 1 km
3.) ablative armour versus shields

In the same time period the only thing that the empire and rebellion have changed is the look of their ships and weapons, they still operate on the same designs and principals.

Trek and stargate could win not only because they can choose their battles through use of superior speed and agility, but also because they find innovative ways to defeat a vastly superior foe in a realitively short amount of time.

 

In Star Trek Voyager - "Waking Moments" there is a species that can enter your dreams like Freddy Kruger.

In "Fury" Kes can time travel... even with time being 'relative', it still scores as a serious advantage for ST.

In Blink of an Eye, "The tachyon core of the planet has created a differential in space-time, meaning that time passes much more quickly on the planet than in the rest of space." which means their tech would evolve so quickly, a ship could just sit in that system and get ever-increasing advanced technology delivered or just let the locals of that world keep sending ships out to conquer any threat SW sent their way. Remember that the inhabitents of that planet find Voyager's crew almost at a stand-still, so if a ship came to conquer this planet, they would also be 'stuck' in time the same way.

How's that for an automatic 'win' for Trek?

Another recent debate I started was that no matter what, the ultra-hot Seven of Nine is by far cooler than anything SW offered, and to that I got 2 responses: Leia in the metal bikini and Padme in the Arena scene.

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SW fans... really. That's hot (debatable), but I said cool. If the blonde borg bombshell doesnt do it for ya... I'd present to you the lovely, highly intelligent and skilled fighter... Dadzia Dax.

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She's everything - cute and playful, or sensuous and sexy. Whatever mood she's in, she's got the look. Hands down.

 

Well also remember that means that the planet just exhausts all of its resources in just a few days....

In stargate the asguard made a time dilation device. Thatd trap an empirial fleet in its tracks for a long long time.