Stiffening of Space-Time through electromagnetic waves

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by SeekerOfTruth, Oct 31, 2001.

  1. SeekerOfTruth Unemployed, but Looking Registered Senior Member

    I recently read a summary of a research paper that described some theoretical work that had been done.

    The theoretical work stated that electromagnetic waves will "stiffen" Space-Time.

    I haven't been able to locate the actual paper or re-locate the summary so I was wondering if anyone else was aware of this work.

    Also, I was wondering what everyone else's thoughts would be if this theory is true.

    For example, I was wondering if such a theory could lead to electromagnetic shields like those found in Star Trek.

    Everyone's input is welcome and hoped for.
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  3. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

    I think I've found a link to the subject your mentioning about:

    Of course you will have to mention if it's the same or not.

    From my understanding I've been kicking over the same kind of understanding over the past couple of months, but I've had a different understanding that involves Fractal energy emmisions (Zero-point energy) and the fact that to each quanta of energy is an electromagnetic field that has strength in relationship to the energy.

    This gives an understanding of background noise reacts with itself. It makes me think of the Start up to book Neuromancer.

    I quoted that because I perceive background noise being similar to that of a dead television channel. A constant anarchaic fractalating pattern, where on occasion the pixels light to similar colours created a large "body" or break into little "bodies".

    I think if you take an understanding of Electromagnetics (the output of magnetic forces from energy) and an understanding of Schrodingers Wavefuctions, you should be able to composite the reality.

    I just might explain in the future, but again my main problem is trying to put all my thoughts into a proper precise and knowledgable paper.
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  5. SeekerOfTruth Unemployed, but Looking Registered Senior Member

    Yes! That's it. Thank you. Now to find the actual paper.

    Also, have you considered that the cosmic background radiation (noise) left over from the big bang might be producing such non-random fractal relationships?

    Also, if magnetic field lines are actually stiffening the fabric of space time, does that not imply that we are altering the effects of gravity, thereby creating a type of, dare I say it, "anti-gravity".
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  7. SeekerOfTruth Unemployed, but Looking Registered Senior Member

  8. Mr. G reality.sys Valued Senior Member

    Quite an interesting piece.

    In retrospect, it should come as no surprise that magnetism might actually affect, in a measureable way, the geometry of spacetime since magnetism arises necessarily from electrons -- a fermion, as are neutrons and protons -- and collections of fermions are embued (perhaps by the Higgs Boson) with the quality of mass which, in turn, is definitly known to affect the geometry of spacetime.

    So, is it the presence of immaterial magnetic fields that affects the geometry of spacetime or is it the presence of electrons with mass that are necessary for the existence of magnetic fields that do it?


    So then, what affect does the massless, electromagnetic force-carrying photon have on the shape of spacetime?

    Can you make a spacetime-distorting black hole by collecting in one place in spacetime an infinite number of electromagnetic force-carrying photons?
  9. John Devers (AVATAR) Registered Senior Member

    Sounds really interesting. I've linked your comments up to a simular discussion on black holes in the SSSF links below.

    <A HREF="" target=new><FONT COLOR=blue size=+1> Space movement
    When archived
    <A HREF=""><FONT COLOR=blue size=+1> try here. </FONT></A>
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2001
  10. SeekerOfTruth Unemployed, but Looking Registered Senior Member

    More thoughts..

    Here are some more thoughts I have had...

    First, I read another article about 8 months ago about a woman physicist that was well known in the field and was a professor at some college on the East coast of the USA. She had left her position to start a company developing a material she claimed could create anti-gravity effects. Now according to the article, she was well known and very respected so she wasn't a quack. She claimed the material was some type of lattice structure that had specific atoms placed at specific points in the lattice and when she applied a current to the material anything placed above the material would float.

    I haven't heard anything about her or the material since, but if magnetic fields can actually stiffen out space-time, then if this material was capable of generating a very large, confined magnetic field within it when electrical current was applied, wouldn't the magnetic field have the potential to "stiffen" space-time within the material, and thereby shield anything placed above it from the effects of gravity?

    If the photon is actually massless, which has been argued recently, then maybe the photon's speed, or the speed of light, is limited by the photon's ability to transverse the "fields" of electromagnetic flux lines. In other words, maybe the flux lines of the magnetic fields that permeate the Universe are acting like an "ether" or media which is limiting the speed of the photon. Thus, if you could somehow alter the minimum spacing of flux lines, could you alter the speed of light?

    Finally, if this interaction is true, then in astronomical observations we should see the effect in places like rotating neutron stars or black holes, which while rotating are generating extremely strong magnetic fields. These fields would alter the apparent gravitational effects that the objects have and make them appear to have less mass. When you think about this for a minute, doesn't that imply that mass is somehow linked to an magnetic field in some way, as Mr. G. already mentioned? I mean, if you can alter the perceived mass of an object, by reducing its gravitational effect on space-time, through the use of a magnetic field, doesn't that imply that mass, and thereby gravity, are somehow linked to magnetic fields?

    Just some random thoughts I have had, take them for what you will.

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    Any and all replies are definitely welcome.
  11. John Devers (AVATAR) Registered Senior Member

    Hi SoT, I have had a discussion on magnetic flux lines recently, I think they are only valid within superconductors.

    Do you mean magnetic field lines?
  12. SeekerOfTruth Unemployed, but Looking Registered Senior Member


    In a way, yes and no. I was thinking of magnetic flux lines. To borrow the definition out of one of my electromagnetics books (Field and Wave Electromagnetics by David K. Chang):

    "In the study of vector fields it is convenient to represent field variations graphically by directed field lines, which are called flux line or streamlines. These are directed lines or curves that indicate at each point the direction of the vector field. The magnitude of the field at a point is depcited by the density of the linces in the vicinity of the point."

    So what I actually meant was the density of the magnetic field lines which is represented by the the flux lines. By changing the flux lines, you are changing the density of the magnetic field lines.

    At least that is my understanding, which by the way could be completely wrong as electromagnetics and advanced physics are not my area of expertise.

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  13. John Devers (AVATAR) Registered Senior Member

    Hi SoT, my discussion was in regard to what I had heard about Magnetic flux lines and electrons and something about electrons and flux lines controling where electrons will move in SCs.

    I'll have to look up the other implications you mention.

  14. thed IT Gopher Registered Senior Member

    Yikes, this gets into <a href="">magnetohydrodynamics and plasma physics</a>

    In a plasma, like the early Universe or in a Star, the magnetic field lines can be extremely tighly packed. This increases the 'density' of the field enormously. You can get regions in a plasma where a magnetic 'tube' is formed by the electrons. If two such tubes are in close proximity the forces bewteen them are immense. Its what is thought to cause Coronal Mass Ejections and Solar Flares as the tubes intersect and 'break'

    I suppose if two highly dense fields in a region of highly curved spacetime wierd things will happen.

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