Support for belief in Noah's flood, not evidence.

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Dinosaur, Sep 4, 2017.

  1. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    It is known that the Black & Mediterranean Seas completely evaporated long before the appearance of Homo Sapiens. Both seas lose water by evaporation faster than water replenishment from by rain fall & input from rivers.

    To maintain current sea levels, the Black Sea requires input from the Mediterranean & the Mediterranean requires input from the Atlantic Ocean.

    However, knowledgeable historians & geologists are aware that the Black Sea partially evaporated after Homo Sapiens built primitive villages below the current sea level. The remains of such villages have been discovered (not sure when) circa 200 feet below the current level of the Black Sea.

    The straights between the Mediterranean & the Black sea closed long enough to result in the evaporation.

    Water is persistent ​
    The Noah flood story is likely due to the above historic events.
     
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  3. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    The above historic events results in a drop in sea level (over what must be multiple generations); they do not - in and of themselves - explain a catastrophic flood.
     
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  5. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    True. However I have read a theory that after the ice age, the water rose - I forget which side - of the Bosphorus and eventually overtopped the barrier, leading to the sea flooding progressively through it. That could lead to flood myths, I imagine.
     
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  7. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Or all the other floods everywhere.
     
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  8. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Yes. Which makes me wonder why Dinosaur neglected the part that actually referred to the flood. I guess this is just another piece.
     
  9. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    It seems to me that the flood story is just another myth, and probably based on the real destructive power of floods. It has no more basis in fact than the tower of babble myth to explain why there are different languages, or the garden of Eden myth to explain why life is so tough.
     
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  10. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    I'm more inclined to interpret the Noah's flood story as mythological than historical.

    I doubt that it is an echo of historical events that may or may not have taken place at the end of the last ice age, perhaps 10,000 years earlier, when sea levels rose dramatically and the Pillars of Hercules might have became the greatest of all waterfalls, flooding the Mediterranean basin..

    I'm more inclined to interpret it as a late Hebrew version of a much older Mesopotamian proto-philosophical myth. Myth can perhaps be described as the expression of what we today might think of as philosophical ideas in the form of stories instead of theories.

    In many ancient myths, water represents chaos. That's largely because it is formless and takes the form of whatever container it is placed in. So we see myths imagining that the primordial state of being was water, and that creation was the imposition of form onto the formlessness. (An early version of the matter/form ontology that we later see with the Greeks and even into the present.) Water was what the Greeks called the 'arche' (primordial stuff), pure potentiality in Aristotle's thinking, while form was the spiritual element, the rational 'logos' imposed on it to make it actually be something.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arche

    We still see hints of this kind of by-then long traditional mythological cosmology in Genesis 1:2, which reads: "Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters."

    In ancient Mesopotamia most buildings were made out of mud brick. The biggest danger that they knew was flooding, when the Tigris and Euphrates rose out of their banks and threatened to destroy all of humanity's works, returning everything to the chaos from which it had originally emerged

    I think that's the context of the Noah's flood story. It's an attempt to employ the then-ancient and long-traditional imagery to depict God tiring of his creation and returning it to the chaos to which he had originally given form with his Word.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2017
  11. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    I've seen three or four local floods myself - water as far as the eye can see, even if it's only a few inches deep. It isn't much of a stretch to imagine the whole world flooded. I don't know why people look farther than that for causes of the Flood myth.
     
  12. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    What evidence is there to dismiss worldwide flood from rational thinking?
     
  13. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    It doesn't work that way. The onus is on the claimant.

    Otherwise, I would be free to volunteer my theory that the universe was sneezed out of the cosmic nose of the Great Green Argleblaster - and if you challenged me, I would demand you provide evidence to show why you would dismiss it.
     
  14. zacariah88 Registered Member

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    The flood has been recorded thru out history by various civilization and some civilizations have been lost to it. The giants were destroyed by it . For a reason it happen in history and we have lost history record. It is even said before the flood the people of that time giants and Noah and his people knew the name of God the real one and was lost because of the flood.
     
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  15. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Agreed. But most myths have a kernel of truth to them - Moses parting the Black Sea or Jesus's Sermon on the Mount for example.

    In more modern times, the vampire myth was probably brought about because carriers of tuberculosis would visit homes, and afterwards the people there would develop a wasting sickness that turned them pale. Without any medical knowledge, evil visitors who drained them of their blood was an understandable attempt to explain what happened.

    Or consider the Pied Piper of Hamelin. Another myth - but most of the town's children did disappear on June 26, 1284, an event that was written about for years afterwards. Attributing it to a "piper" luring the children away was likely simply another way to try to make it make more sense to the people of that time.
     
  16. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Math.
     
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  17. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Fixed that for ya.
     
  18. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    Amazing that we have all these fossil evidence of dinosaurs, that lived millions of years ago, yet no evidence of these so called giants? I guess that proves the flood happened, right? I mean, only that could have wiped the record of their existence away from the face of the earth? Yup, that's critical thinking for ya!

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  19. zacariah88 Registered Member

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    Very strange of it all isn't, science deny one thing but acknowledges the other truly mysterious science is and baffled. hahhahah.
     
  20. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Science deny nothing. Science not a person; science a process. Process say follow the evidence.
     
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  21. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Science doesn't deny giants. Science says that if there is strong evidence of giants, there's a good chance they existed. There is no strong evidence of giants, so they likely did not.
     
  22. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    So far I've heard "Math", somehow the flood would of wiped away all evidence of the dinosaurs.

    Math being the most plausible one, I guess if life on earth got wiped out by a flood and only 5/6 people survived, could we get to where we are in 4000 or so years? A more difficult challenge is could the ark fit enough animals in it to repopulate the animal kingdom?

    Is it possible?
     
  23. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    Do you believe giants existed? If so, how big?
     

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