Symposium: The Left's Attack on Bush

Discussion in 'Politics' started by NetSpider, Apr 11, 2004.

  1. NetSpider Registered Member

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  3. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    Simply appalling. The left should be more restrained, like the right was during the Clinton Administration. Restrain them!

    From your first link:
    A sincere argument for rising above reactionary bullshit is worth making, but yours immediately falls down in its own reactionary bullshit. I could waste time refuting the smears on the allegiences of dissenting Americans, and on the effectiveness of the Bush Administration in bolstering our security- But that doesn't seem like the intent of the thread.

    Please try again: I would suggest providing a few verifiable examples of unwarranted or unsubstatiated attacks from the left on the Bush White House.
     
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  5. otheadp Banned Banned

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    let's not say "all liberals are bad"
    some liberals support the war in Iraq and the war on terror very loudly and proudly

    instead, if it smells like shit and looks like shit, we should call it for what it is: a Fifth Column
     
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  7. NetSpider Registered Member

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  8. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    I did, and it has refreshed my memory of a mindset forged in the cold war, that Israel and America are the leading beacons and agents in the world of justice, and Communists, leftists, terrorists, intellectuals, and yuppies are in shadowy collusions to bring down a new Dark Age on the world, because they openly or secretly hate freedom, democracy, and (most of them) the Jews.

    Now, I don't see the efficiency of refuting these articles you have linked, which I did take the time to read carefully, in order to have a discussion about what you have termed "The Left's Attack on Bush".

    Could you please start with your own example of one specific attack?
     
  9. NetSpider Registered Member

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    it was better if i linked those Russian and spain articles first , to put things into the right perspective .

    and then you'l understand that the left's in the USA just doing what the soviet KGB planned for ...
    making from the USA a banana republic .
     
  10. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    Could you please start with your own example of one specific attack?
     
  11. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

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  12. NetSpider Registered Member

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    it's that people of USA against bush and his policy , and its not about specific attack...

    what really does matter its that the people of USA are divided, and this is the real goal .
    to divide the people .

    have you heard about this ancient policy "Divide and Rule" .

    by this policy they going to achieve what they want .
    and the blast in spain is the best example for their action , when they basicly divided the people of spain , and made that the people of spain elected the socialist .
    when the government of spain doing what the terrorist want .
    and basicly they divided spain and USA , when spain don't want any relation anymore with USA and its war .
    slowly they going to achieve that with whole europe , and left the USA all alone .

    Muslims are just the soviet puppets , they are the "useful fools" of russia for the dirty work .

    -=Edit=-
    HAH , you even got example in the above post by "Repo Man" ... very lame attempt to play with human brains / emotions
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2004
  13. guthrie paradox generator Registered Senior Member

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    HHHHmmm, so presumably, democracies dont work if everyone is divided, because that means that people cant get to what they want to do and say what they want to say, because they are divided........

    "when they basicly divided the people of spain "

    How about the majority of them were united in disgust at the way the gvt tried to spin the attack?
     
  14. NetSpider Registered Member

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    About democracy , its all good ... to it has to be protected .
    this is exactly the exploit in democracy when it comes about "Divide and Rule" .
    and they using it .

    and about that they were united , what its got to do ... explain
     
  15. Undecided Banned Banned

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    The Spanish gov't spit on the social contract it had with her population. Going to war even though most of the population did not agree with the war was the last straw. A democratic gov't listens to its population on such important issues like a war. This isn't a budget, ppl lives are at stake. The Spanish ppl had very good reasons to be angry at the Anzar gov't, not only did he not listen to their overt protests, it caused over 100 ppl and 1000 ppl to get injured for a lie which is the Iraq War. The ouster of the conservatives in Spain was a force of democracy, not one of terrorism.
     
  16. guthrie paradox generator Registered Senior Member

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    roughly speaking, the general opi9nion is tha tthe election would have been close, but a win for the incumbents. However, they spun the bombing a bit too much as being Basque separatists, and it also reminded people of the gvts joining in the war in iraq. thus, people united in rejecting a gtvt that did stuff they didnt want them to, and went too far in use of political spin.

    "this is exactly the exploit in democracy when it comes about "Divide and Rule" ."

    But thats the point about a democracy, you cannot expect it to rally together. thus, it is a weak spot, but also the ultimate protection of the individuals right to do and say (within limits) as they please. You seem to be veering towards fascism as a preferred response to an attack on a democracy.
     
  17. otheadp Banned Banned

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    The ouster of the conservatives in Spain was a force of democracy, not one of terrorism.
    the terrorist attacks were the main driving force in changing the government in Spain
    the socialists scored an unexpected win. before the attacks they were trailing in the polls

    link

    the terrorists know they cannot beat Spain (or the US) militarily, so they use the democratic process (the West greatest asset) as a tool against it, turning it into a liability

    now, all a terrorist needs to do to influence domestic and foreign policy, is bring a bomb to some public place and bomb away!

    the government is replaced, the troops are withdrawn, policy changes as dictated by the terrorists, national tactical and strategic objectives are not achieved
     
  18. guthrie paradox generator Registered Senior Member

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    But your assuming that said national tactical and strategic objectives are "right", "proper" and "desirable" etc.

    the simple point is that this is indeed something of a problem with democracy, but not one that I am unduly worried about. The alternative is a set up in which the gvt can declare that a war is in progress, and all normal procedures do not count.

    Perhaps you could explain how marginalisation of Spain will reduce the USA's activities in Iraq?

    Otheadp:
    "now, all a terrorist needs to do to influence domestic and foreign policy, is bring a bomb to some public place and bomb away!"

    They did. Or do you agree with the conspiracy theorists that september the 11th was planned before hand by the USA administration? Or will you merely accept that it triggered the USA to change its domestic and foreign policy in order to attack Afghanistan and Iraq and start the war on terror?
     
  19. Undecided Banned Banned

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    But it doesn't negate the fact that the gov't did not listen to the collective will of the ppl. The 3-5% gap is most likely within the statistical margin of error. So really the election was a dead heat. The country voted as a democracy should vote, for the ppl not for the oligarchy.
     
  20. otheadp Banned Banned

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    nico:
    when polls are released, the potential marginal error points are already taken into account.
    even if they aren't in this particular poll, i don't know what your assumption that it's "most likely within the statistical margin error" is based on.

    guthrie:
    "right", "proper" and "desirable" are subjective. i think the administration is in a better position than anyone to judge what is best for the country, based on all their information, and considering all alternatives
    of course, not everyone agrees with them. public opinion is often in the way of a lot of right, proper, and desirable decisions (not always, of course)

    let's take bin Laden for example
    if he was taken out 3 weeks before 9-11, 9-11 would still've happened
    and people would've claimed that al-Qaeda has retaliated to bin-Laden's killing
    they would've punished the administration that would've taken him out

    or, let's say another Oklahoma happens
    the public will be reconsidering the war on terror

    then, the LA airport goes boom, the public will be angry by now.
    the opposing party (no matter who's in power) will create a media buzz, the conspiracy theorists will have record hits to their blogs

    then, a dirty bomb is released in Las Vegas
    by now the public will demand the end to the 'war on terrorism'

    a quick magical solution will be sought, and many stupid short-run feel-good decisions will be made to appease the sheep

    "The main argument against democracy is to spend five minutes with the average voter" -- Churchill
     
  21. Whirlwind Banned Banned

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    Whirlwind opines....

    What's with this "The left against George W. Bush, bullsh!t?

    George W. Bush (like his deadbeat brother Neil Bush) is a life long loser and the country (Left & Right) is in a panic... his credentials for being president are as follows:

    1. The sh!t head started an oil exploration company but could find no oil in Texas.

    2. He then sold the stock using insider information the month before the company went belly up, the investors lost their asses.

    3. He bought the Texas Rangers, using the taxpayers of Texas to finance the deal and then bailed out when the going got tough.

    4. He joined the Texas National Guard on the day he applied for membership (bucking a line of 100,00 other draft dodger rats there were "in front of him.") because his daddy had clout.

    He scored too low to be a pilot nevertheless he got a "slot" in preflight school (probably taking an opportunity from some kid that had dreamt of being a pilot all of his life). After he finished flight school (graduating at the bottom 1/3 of his class) he decided that flying was no biggie and asked to be excused so he could work on some politicians reelection committee (he lost!) and then refused to return to flight status (some say the cocaine in his system prevented him from taking a routine urine test).
    He put more people to sleep as the governor of Texas than any other governor in 75 years.

    Now he's our president, Whooppeee!

    As president he has:

    Placed the enemies of the environment at the head of most all areas of Forest Conservation, Water quality control, Nuclear plant inspection, Pollution control in the Coal, Auto emmissions, and Air Quality agences.

    He's p!ssed away the $5 billion Clinton surplus
    Pissed away billions out of Social Security fund.
    Abrogated the Kyoto, ABM, ICC, treaties.
    Violated the Nuclear nonproliferation Treaty. (Currently he's developing Bunker busting nukes).
    Violated the Bacterialogical warfare treaty (Currently building new weaponized bio-weapons)
    Invaded a hapless Arab country to satisfy his egotistical desires.
    Has lost over 690 US soldiers in Iraq & Afghanistan
    Massacred over 20,00 civilians in Iraq & Afghanistan while hiding this fact.
    Ordered the US media not to show dead soldiers arriving at Dover, AFB.
    Hired five of the dirtiest pro-Israel ZioNazi's (Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Feth, Wurmser and Perle to help him lie to the American and provide the lies and twisted intelligence to justify his "going to war" with Iraq.

    And to think that Bill Clinton was convicted of "only" offering Monica Lewinski a little "stoop" labor in the oval room!

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    After letting Ken Star blow $60 million trying to "get him" in the Whitewater scandal, he was found guilty of nothing, nada!

    I believe that George W. Bush and Ariel Sharon should be hung by the testicals on some Iraq bridge after attending a barbaque where they are the main course!

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    Whirlwind....
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2004
  22. otheadp Banned Banned

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    thank you for that history lesson
    i guess you missed the last line of my last post
     
  23. Whirlwind Banned Banned

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    They say my message is too short......

    But what else can I say?

    Whirlwind

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