Syria: The "Rebels" Are Terrorists

[RedStar]

Indeed, you have no problem describing yourself in such rosy terms when you need such as a premise to denounce others. Within a few posts, though, you'll be back to regurgitating dated hard-line Marxist Revolutionary rhetoric. You aren't fooling anyone.

Quote an example of me doing this and I'll officially apologize.

It's fine by me if they want to vote for Assad in free and fair democratic elections. I do not think their preferences would prevail in such a situation. I don't propose disenfranchizing any Syrians, unlike the Assad supporters who insist upon dictating the fate of the entire nation, through the use of violence.

Yes, they are disenfranchizing the Sunnis. I'm glad. They tend to support Islamic extremists. Minority protection > majority rule.

One of those groups has legitimate, defensible interests and one of those groups has illegitimate, indefensible "interests."

It's trivially true that all political conflicts occur between groups with their own particular interests. That doesn't magically erase morality from the issue. Not all "interests" are morally equal.

And of course, you and the USA get to define which is which and what is what.

The "material reality" is that the Assad dynasty is a destructive force that continues to pervert and undermine Syria for its own narrow, illegitimate benefit.

That's probably true. I'd be hard pressed to find a country where this didn't apply to the government, though.

 

[RedStar]

China has already invaded the country. They've outsourced fruit picking to Americans and gained access to their banks. If you've noted their lack of arable landmass and the huge American debt, you'll figure out how they're solving two problems in one go. And seeing that Adelson is willing to spend 100 million dollars to buy himself an American President, one wonders how far a Chinese lobby will go to purchase one for themselves too

Now all we need is an official invasion by the Peoples' Liberation Army :thumbsup:

 

[youreyes]

We need a nice "WMD in Iraq" like make-up douchebag excuse to get rid of these "Syrian Friends".

 

[RedStar]

We need a nice "WMD in Iraq" like make-up douchebag excuse to get rid of these "Syrian Friends".

No. Imperialism is not a good thing.

 

[James R]

I don't believe in your bourgeois democracy anyway, so I don't see it as any more legitimate or less legitimate than Assad's presidency.

Where do you live, RedStar. China? Russia?

Do you think you'll be moving to Syria sometime soon then?

Surely you can't be living in a democracy, seeing as you hate democracy so.

 

[S.A.M.]

Now all we need is an official invasion by the Peoples' Liberation Army :thumbsup:

Not gonna happen, sorry, the Chinese are not stupid, lol

 

[RedStar]

Where do you live, RedStar. China? Russia?

Do you think you'll be moving to Syria sometime soon then?

Surely you can't be living in a democracy, seeing as you hate democracy so.

I love democracy. Real democracy can't exist unless you have a classless society, though.

I'm not saying I hate democracy, I said I hate BOURGEOIS democracy. Pay attention. Democracy in America is a fucking joke.

Not gonna happen, sorry, the Chinese are not stupid, lol

A guy can wish.

 

[Bells]

The reverse, I am saying that as a chip off the old block he seems to have lost his way since he is attacking minority neigborhoods and major commercial centers where Sunnis are not granted favours by his government instead of the impoverished Sunni ghettos like daddy dear did. I just had a heated debate with a Saudi guy who is actively funding the rebels because everyone knows that Saudi Arabia is the best model in the Middle East for Syrian revolutionaries and maybe it helps that ambassador Ford is actively recruiting Assad's replacement in Cairo

Ah Just what we need - another Sharia puppet state in the neighborhood

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/05/w...d-pentagon-planning-for-post-assad-syria.html

And quite quite coincidentally this is the same ambassador who was visitiing Syria in January 2011 when the phantom bombs went off in Aleppo. Not sure what this means yet. Like in the case of Libya I have no access in Syria.

The fighting is taking place in the larger towns and commercial centers. The massacres perpetrated by his forces are being committed in the smaller villages and centers, farming communities..

 

[S.A.M.]

The fighting is taking place in the larger towns and commercial centers. The massacres perpetrated by his forces are being committed in the smaller villages and centers, farming communities..

And you know this, how?

 

[RedStar]

Bells, the rebels have been murdering people. Lots of people. Want some articles?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn6Snf__nxY

Syrian Christians support Assad, apparently. I wonder why? Maybe it's because they are afraid of an Islamic extremist government?

Bells, your crusade is cute, considering how one-sided and moralistic your arguments are. Even though you've been shown REPEATEDLY that al qaida and foreign forces are DIRECTLY involved with this "rebellion".

 

[S.A.M.]

Al Qaida is a meaningless term anyone can call themselves al Qaida. The "rebels" are Muslim Brotherhood militia and their sympathisers and the funding is from Saudi Arabia and Qatar

"Muslim Brotherhood establishes militia inside Syria
The Muslim Brotherhood has established its own militia inside Syria as the country's rebels fracture between radical Islamists and their rivals, commanders and gun-runners have told The Daily Telegraph. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...herhood-establishes-militia-inside-Syria.html


Its amazing how people cannot see the difference between a revolution, which is what happened in Tunisia and Egypt and a coup, which is what happened in Libya and is going on in Syria

 

[RedStar]

Another point Bells forgets to address: why the hell is Saudi Arabia, a state wholly more despotic than Syria, condemning Syria? And more importantly, why is the United States, the "champion of freedom", allying itself with Saudi Arabia?

Your hypocrisy is showing.

 

[Bells]

And you know this, how?

This how:

Al-Qubeir is described as a Sunni farming settlement surrounded by Alawite villages in the central province of Hama.[1] According to preliminary evidence, troops had surrounded the village which was followed by pro-government Shabiha militia entering the village and killing civilians with "barbarity," UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon told the UN Security Council.

---

Bells, your crusade is cute, considering how one-sided and moralistic your arguments are. Even though you've been shown REPEATEDLY that al qaida and foreign forces are DIRECTLY involved with this "rebellion".

RedStar, I will warn you just this one time. Please stop acting in such a condescending and sexist manner by repeatedly commenting on the 'cuteness' of my supposed crusade. I attempted to drop you a subtle hint about your "cute" argument above and since you seem incapable of recognising the sarcasm of your condescending manner towards me (and others), I thought it best to simply warn you outright.

Do I make myself clear?

Bells, the rebels have been murdering people. Lots of people. Want some articles?

Yes they have.

Does not make what Assad is doing any better.

You consistently keep saying 'but they do it to' as a form of argument. It doesn't work that way. If you are going to compare, then start with Assad's forces opening fire on peaceful protesters which started this conflict and which resulted in people defecting from Syria's armed forces because they refused to shoot and fire on unarmed citizens who are doing nothing more than protesting against the bourgeoisie leadership.

Syrian Christians support Assad, apparently. I wonder why? Maybe it's because they are afraid of an Islamic extremist government?

No one yet knows that it would be an Islamic extremist government who would take over.

How about a free election and a cessation to the attacks and massacres and allowing neutral observers in and peacekeepers to ensure the civilian population is protected? How about allowing the Red Cross access to all the injured instead of preventing them from entering as they continued to massacre people and then shooting at red cross ambulances who were trying to extract injured civilians? How about less raping of small boys by Assad's forces and less massacres of women and children cowering in their homes? I know, it's a foreign concept to you that people should have the right to live, but it is a human right.

How about we start from there and see how we go?

But your fake "I'm a communist" stance on this site is noted, as is your hypocrisy.

 

[RedStar]

Nope. When you have British special forces training rebels, CIA involved, and Al Qaida on the ground, I'm not buying your bullshit about "it's just about democracy".

Here's an idea. When the USA officially condemns the Saudi government, I'll give a rats ass about their condemnation of Syria. Until then, Assad needs to keep the country together. The "rebels" are responsible for this mess.

And you are the one with the condescending attitude. It boils down to "I'm a Westerner from a superior Western country that is civilized and I have a right to determine good and evil in a conflict in Syria". Well, you don't. Stop acting so high and mighty.

 

[RedStar]

Why would I, as a communist, side with either group, anyways? I'm on the side of the proletariat. Last time I checked, the rebels did not represent the proletariat, or even pretend to.

Edit: Just noticed your post about human rights. Again, when the USA comes out and quits being a hypocrite, I'll take them seriously. Until then, they have NO RIGHT to talk about human rights. What about the human rights of the people murdered by the "Free Syrian Army" and the US imperialists?

 

[S.A.M.]

Well I don't buy it. Preliminary evidence seems to have a way of becoming some other news in Syria.

"The world is now dimly aware of a whole other set of alleged witnesses with an opposite story. These have said rebel-affiliated terrorists, including known local families and unknown foreign helpers, carried out an attack on loyalist families remaining in this rebel-dominated area. Western powers would never help against that, and these witnesses they don’t bother to ask, which is wise since so few have bothered listening. Their small ranks contain no miracle escapees at all, which inherently makes them more realistic, but these others are ignored while Ali above all is adored."
http://www.syrianews.cc/houla-massacre-star-witness-reconsidered/

see also
http://acloserlookonsyria.wikinet.org/wiki/Main_Page

So still waiting to get some clear news. Meanwhile Washington has cleared the way for Americans to fund the Syrian rebels

"Now you legally can buy weapons for Syrian rebels, according to the Obama administration. Sacramento and national media are now telling U.S. residents that they can legally arm Syrian rebels by sending money to the Syrian Support Group based in Washington, DC at 1000 Connecticut Avenue NW, suite 900, Washington DC 20036 and run by an American. There's a link on the group's website you may click if you wish to donate money.

The group supports the Free Syrian Army (FSA). The Free Syrian Army is an armed opposition group operating in Syria that has been active during the Syrian civil war. See, Free Syrian Army Update English 2012 | Facebook. Also Kofi Annan just quit his role as the U.N. Envoy to Syria. See the current news article, "Kofi Annan Quits Role as United Nation's Syria Envoy.""
http://www.examiner.com/article/u-s-residents-now-can-legallly-arm-sryian-rebels

 

[Aqueous Id]

Aqeuous ID, take it from me, an actual Syrian, who has been to Hama. Radical Islam is alive and well in the "FSA", and they are murdering people.

You have made no mention of the massacre at Hama. That puts you in league with the devil.

Assad wouldn't have to react this way if they (the FSA) weren't going around trying to destabilize the country. They are mostly foreign fighters, too, from Libya and Saudi Arabia. Everybody knows this.

No, everybody knows this: that Assad sponsors global terrorism and massacres Syrians. Beyond this, there is no direct responsibility for anything so heinous, whether it's FSA or outsiders. There will be a reaction to oppression wherever it occurs, and wherever people have the heart to stand up to it.

Before you dare criticize my president for "human rights violations", you had better throw Bush in the slammer and all the generals and commanders responsible for the murder of not 19 thousand, but 3 million people in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Bush is irrelevant. The category here is "presidents who shelled their own people." Before you dare to advocate the murder of your fellow citizens by their dictator, you should be examined by a clinical psychologist and tested for psychopathy. So far you are exhibiting the classic symptoms: denial, blame shifting and minimization of harm to victims.

 

[RedStar]

Like I said, it's a war where neither side is "good" or "evil". Only idealistic Westerners see politics that way.

I'm very quick to criticize Assad, but unlike Bells, I do it from the principled position that the UN (led by the United States) has no right to criticize him considering what the US does and with whom it is allied. I'm sick of her moralism and idealism. This isn't about "human rights" or "democracy". It's about political interest for different parties involved. I'm sick and tired of the handful of Western colonial states that feel the need to get their noses involved in everything going on in the world and write history according to their narrow, bullshit world view.

Edit: Aequious ID, your arguments are precisely what I am talking about. They boil down to "I'm more civilized and therefore in a position to judge others". Again, you're not, you're not Syrian, you have no idea and no right to make judgements. Quit being a hypocrite and turn your criticism towards Saudi Arabia. Also, FYI, the USA sponsors global terrorism and has massacred people. Again, why the fuck do you Americans never look at yourselves before acting high and mighty? The world hates your arrogance.

 

[Aqueous Id]

Assad is massing his troops around Aleppo and will soon righteously crush the rebellion. I hope all the rebels and their sympathizers are summarily executed. They have caused untold destruction and death with their shenanigans.

Advocating murder is sick. See a shrink and get it fixed.

 

[S.A.M.]

All I see is that we are steadily seeing a replacement of secular polities with religious political groups. So the aim appears to be to protect leaders like Saud and the Emiratis, while replacing the Gaddhafis and Assads. What would be achieved by supporting Islamists and Islamist regimes in the ME? If the aim is long term instability it is incredibly shortsighted - the secularists will migrate and the countries all unite under the Islamist banner. So its something else. Saudi Arabia and Turkey are both joined at the hip when it comes to Kurds [note that both are also currently run by Islamist regimes] With Egypt given over to the brotherhood and Syria falling into their hands as well, it would seem that the desired outcome is a pro-Islamist regime in all the major countries in the ME Not sure what that is supposed to achieve