I do so wish that we could give all folks with a similar belief a some land so they could establish their own government and their own economy. We could all take bets on how long they would survive before collapsing into chaos. The best way to deal with fools is to isolate them from their rest of us so they cannot hurt us and then give them enough rope so that they can hang themselves (figuratively sense only) by living out their ideology.
So the mindless socialists on this board who jack their dicks to redistributionism had no problem with Al Capone? After all, he employed coercion to extract money from citizens, and used some of that money to provide services for the community (eg. housing commissions, soup kitchens).
well people want to live in their fantasy world and cry in their beers. that is until by chance they inherit a large sum of money or actually get lucky and provide a service that makes them wealthy.
No, they aren't. Taxes are terribly inefficient. Take a tax econ class or something. Government is not responsible for specialization of labor; basic human greed is. If I can produce wazoos better than you can, and you are better at making sprockets, then we will specialize in our respective disciplines and trade what we make. I know I will, since I am rational. I don't know if you are rational, but if you were, that is also what you would do. Einsteins and Mozarts would flourish, since they could specialize to a greater degree, rather than suck government dick for hand outs. Look at any art now being produced, from Hollywood to international best sellers, and you will see no government interference.
This is a myth. The only taxes that the Amish don't pay are social security taxes. They still pay all other taxes, including income tax, sales tax, and property tax. Ummm, no, he can't. I don't know of any country in the world that lets you succeed like that. I guarantee that if you try to declare yourself independent and stop paying taxes you will quickly end up with your property and money confiscated by the government by force, and probably end up in jail as well.
No one is advocating "socalism" on this board or at least not any I have seen. Socialism and communism are two of the most overworked words on this board and by Republicans and so called conservatives. And I doubt most even know what the words mean. I suggest some of you guys read Adam Smith and the Wealth of Nations. Human systems have an inate tendency to move towards efficiency...hence the magic hand Smith references. Our current system with all its flaws is the most efficient yet invented. And it will continue to evolve over time. Folks who call others socialist or communists are just plain STUPID. They have no clue as to the intricate systems involved in commerce or government or history. Their ability to understand complex systems is limited either by grey matter or will in either case the result is the same.
Socialism means you steal money from one group of people and give it to the people that don't generate enough wealth to enjoy the benefits of those who do. Which is exactly what most of this board advocates. Public schools- socialist. Universal health care- socialist Expansion of government employment for makework projects- socialist Government subsidy of industry- socialist Yeah, it's called government. Then you must be severely deficient in both.
As much as I appreciate your point, I'm not really sure how well that sort of anarchy would work. Private courts? What if I refuse to honor the verdict of your private court? What are you going to do then? I guess you could hire some mercenaries to come kill me or steal some of my property or something, but then justice will directly correspond to how much wealth you have. Suppose I crash my car into your car while I'm driving drunk, badly injuring your family and doing a great deal of damage to your vehicle. I'm rich and have many private security guards/mercenaries/etc. So when you demand some sort of compensation for my negligence, I just laugh and say "You're not getting anything. If you try to make trouble for me I'll kill your family." What are you going to do in this anarcho-paradise they you fantasize about living in? I have more resources than you, so you're out of luck. I suppose you could send your family into hiding and try to exact your revenge against me in the tradition of B-grade action movies, do you really want to have to go through all that trouble? Personally I would much rather live in a society where every dispute doesn't have to become a life-and-death struggle.
Socialism is an economic system in which the means of production and distribution of goods is completely in the hand of the state. This is a far cry from a system in which state has limited economic control. By your definition: national defense- socialist
I believe Norsefire addressed this in his opening post. If 20 thieves vote to steal your car, the theft doesn't suddenly become ethical just because they gave you a vote.
Taxation is not theft. Next time you pull out your wallet or purse look at the name on the currency. Your name is not on the Currency...so it is not yours. Under your stated belief system, since government creates the currency and owns the currency, you should not be using currency. What was that Jesus said, "give unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's"
Given your belief system Nasor, it would be hypocritical of you to use currency. You should be storing your wealth in chickens, cows, pigs, etc. as government creates and manages currency which requires taxation in order to maintain.
1. The government REQUIRES you to use its currency. You do not have the legal option to demand payment in anything other than US dollars. That's what the statement "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private" on the bills means. 2. Even if I did store my wealth in gold or something rather than dollars, I would still be forced to pay taxes on it. So what would be the point? 3. Maybe you should read my post to norsefire before you start deciding what "my beliefs" are. Although I personally think that taxation is theft, I don't see any practical alternative to it. I am not one of these nuts who wants to live in an anarchic society. I do, however, think that there are ethical issues involved in forcing people to pay for things that they don't necessarily want or need. I consider it a necessary evil. You, on the other hand, appear to want to delude yourself into thinking that taxation isn't theft simply because you support taxation and don't want to think of yourself as a thief. At least I'm being honest and realistic about it. If you can formulate a definition of theft that doesn't amount to "taking another's property without their consent," I would be curious to hear it. And that's exactly what taxation is. Even if I go live by myself on my own land and don't use currency, the government would STILL require me to pay various taxes. If I worked for someone and was paid in gold rather than US dollars, they would still tax the gold. Hell, even if I mined my own gold and stamped my own name on it and used it to pay employees, those employees would still have to pay taxes on it. Your talk about whose name is on the money mattering is nonsense.
No one requires you to hire employees. No one says you have to earn x dollars. You only have tax problems when you want to trade. No one requires you to trade. No one requires you to own anything. That is your choice. It is a personal choice. And there is this thing called barter. You are not required to use currency, it is a choice. Using currency has advantages, but it is not required. Show me the law that requires you to use currency. You cannot as it does not exist. You use currency because you like the advantages it bestows on you. So as long as you and others with your viewpoint want to use currency, you are being very hypocritical. So why do the majority of us have to conform to your choices? I hope you are getting my point.
I take it you've never heard of a property tax? Even if you don't engage in any trade you will still be taxes simply for having land and/or a house. Of course there's no requirement that you own a house or land, but if you don't then you will have to rent, which will require you to engage in commerce. Well sure, I could refuse to trade or own anything, and then I could avoid having the government steal some of my money via taxes. But that doesn't make the taxation ethical. Your argument is similar to a street thug saying "Hey, if you don't want me to rob you, then don't come outside! No one's forcing you to come outside. It's your personal choice." It's technically true that there is no law requiring you to use US dollars because there's no law requiring you to engage in commerce or own anything, but the law definitely does require you to accept US dollars as payment for debts if they are offered to you. If you are indebted to me because I rented you my apartment or I did some work for you, I don't have the legal option to refuse your payment in US dollars. I am not sure what you mean here. I have already said that I consider taxes to be a necessary evil. I don't want to live in an anarchy. I do, however, acknowledge that in order to achieve the sort of society I (and you, and pretty much everyone else except norsefire) want to live it, it's necessary to commit a certain amount of organized theft. The only difference between you and I is that I at least realize that taxation is a necessary evil, while you want to make up rationalizations for why you should be able to take other people's money so that you don't have to feel bad about stealing.
