Teenage Voting

Discussion in 'Politics' started by goofyfish, May 11, 2004.

  1. goofyfish Analog By Birth, Digital By Design Valued Senior Member

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    A committee of the California Legislature has recently passed legislation that would allow anyone 14 years or older to vote. In this legislation, those 14 and 15 years of age would get a 1/4 vote and those 16 and 17 would get a 1/2 vote.
    The premise of this legislation is that it would help young adults develop a sense of civic responsibility. While I believe this is an admirable goal, I have serious concerns that many young people simply do not have enough experience to be able to fully understand the issues that they may be voting on (a premise which applies to many adults as well, unfortunately). I believe that many 14 and 15 year olds have probably gotten much of their political education from their parents and will likely vote accordingly.

    Youth-fractional-voting could also lead to (I might be stretching it again here, but maybe not all that far) discrimination against those who are single. And politics will become showbiz (even more so than now) as politicians try to appeal to the even younger youth vote that probably wouldn't care.

    Al Gore did the macarena, I'll let you come up with your own potential horror story.

    :m: Peace.
     
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  3. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    I like democracy on principle.

    But even I admit that most of the adults who vote shouldn't.

    At one time in my life, I would have said that I would have made use of the vote. But then I pause and consider my high school. I mean ... I actually have had the conversation where you look at someone and say, "Understand ... you have committed rape and your best shot is that she, like most, will say nothing. You might get lucky, but don't tell me you're good."

    And my generation has only declined since high school.

    And yes ... we vote.
    Just work with me:

    • Old enough to pay taxes, not old enough to vote
    • Old enough to pay taxes, not old enough to buy beer
    • Old enough to die in war, not old enough to buy beer

    Now then ...

    • Old enough to vote, not old enough to legally give away one's sexual virtue to another voting adult?

    The great thing about this is that if we rush children to adulthood, it will no longer be wrong to have sex with the pretty young ones. NAMBLA wins, the post-Nabokov barflies win ... just about everybody will win but the youth themselves. And who cares? We can just vote them off the health plan when the cervical cancer rate goes through the roof; after all, why should we pay for other people's irresponsible decisions?

    (How's that for tangential?)

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  5. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    If anything I think the voting age should be raised to 25.
     
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  7. Captain_Crunch Club Ninja Valued Senior Member

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    I for one believe that in order for democracy to work it should be compulsory to vote. In this country the voter turn out is around the 50% mark, so its possible that we have a government that isnt favoured by the majority. So to allow kids to vote (pre 18) then you may well have more kids voting for government than adults and to let kids vote that dont have to deal with the consequences of their actions then that is a grave mistake. Its bad enough that half of the adult population dont bother to turn out to the voting booth. They should rectify this situation before giving themselves another one.
     
  8. goofyfish Analog By Birth, Digital By Design Valued Senior Member

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    I'm pretty sure that courts in the US have ruled that not voting is a form of political protest that is protected by the 1st Amendment. And what is the value of someone who doesn't give a rat's ass being forced to wander into the polls and picking who to vote for more or less at random?

    Letting people who haven't bothered to inform themselves stay home is a much better idea.

    :m: Peace.
     
  9. buffys Registered Loser Registered Senior Member

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    Join army... 18
    Sex... 16
    Alcohol... 21
    Driving... 15
    Vote... 18

    I know these ages are different from place to place but you get the idea.

    What the hell? When I was a kid, it wasn't the fact that I had to wait to be a certain age to do something that really bugged me. It was the arbitrary and inconsistent nature of the the whole set-up that made me bang my head against the wall.

    It didn't make any sense back then and now that I'm "all growed up" it makes even less.
     
  10. Captain_Crunch Club Ninja Valued Senior Member

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    Yeh, I see what your saying Goofy but I would like to think people would find out who they are going to vote for and take an interest - the majority anyway.
    Youve got a point though.

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  11. StarOfEight A Man of Taste and Decency Registered Senior Member

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    Given that adults have elected Jesse Ventura, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sonny Bono, and Ronald Reagan ... those that bother to vote, at any rate, I don't see how the state of democracy can get any more half-assed and celeb-infested.

    Besides which, wasn't one of the principal issues in the Revolution taxation without representation? And isn't that exactly what this country imposes on most everyone under the age of 18?
     
  12. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe the teens and children shoudl revolt.

    LOL.
     
  13. Mithadon Registered Senior Member

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    46
    Join army...
    Sex...
    Alcohol...
    Driving...
    Vote...

    Frankly, I think none of them should require any age. just tests.
     
  14. buffys Registered Loser Registered Senior Member

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    1 test for everything. If you can bring a baby into the world you sure as hell should be able to vote. Same for alcohol, if you can die for your county you should be able to get drunk before doing it.

    that may mean someone can't drive until they're 35 but if they're that stupid it's probably a good thing.
     
  15. DeeCee Valued Senior Member

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    1,793
    Yup!
    Give the vote to people born yesterday.
    I guess the pols would just love that.

    Dee Cee
     
  16. whitewolf asleep under the juniper bush Registered Senior Member

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    Wait, so those under 18 are not fully humans? DISCRIMINATION! DISCRIMINATION, I SAY! (referring to the part of history where an African American wasn't counted as a full person in voting. what was the fraction?)
     
  17. Undecided Banned Banned

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    4,731
    Wait, so those under 18 are not fully humans?

    No they aren't, to be fully human you should at least have gone through the process of basic education and be of normal working age. I don't think most of the population should vote, because a high school diploma is not the hardest thing to get. But I guess we are stuck with it all...
     
  18. Mystech Adult Supervision Required Registered Senior Member

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    I’ll admit that I’ve known some very politically aware and morally responsible teenagers before, and thinking back to high-school believe that I myself would have likely been ready for half a vote at the least. On that same note, however I can remember the sheer mass of stupidity and complete detachment and disinterest in the real world that made up the rest of my graduating class.

    These young teens simply aren’t qualified to make big decisions. That’s why they live with mommy and daddy, they can’t handle real life yet, so they need a bit of insulation. It just doesn’t make good sense.

    Aside from the lack of judgment skills that really should be in place when voting, it’s also quite possible that many young votes will be coerced by parents and care takers. Even if they have a fairly politically inert child, I think it’s conceivable that parents would try to use their children to vote for the candidate they support, essentially giving people with more children more voting power. . . Roman Catholics would be calling the shots!

    Aren’t these the same reasons that we say a child can’t give informed consent for sexual intercourse? What makes a child qualified to give consent to let someone lead their city, state, or nation? If kids were allowed to vote nation wide we’d have a real problem with politicians pulling up in black vans and offering children candy bars if they’ll give them a vote; creepy!
     
  19. whitewolf asleep under the juniper bush Registered Senior Member

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    Then there is another question: will they vote as mom and dad say, or the exact opposite? Thinking back to my younger days, it was all a game.
     
  20. zanket Human Valued Senior Member

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    3,777
    This is a common misconception. If the turnout is even 5% it is extremely likely that the majority got their way. Gallup needs poll only 4,000 people to get within 2.5% of the majority opinion.

    If kids under 18 are allowed to vote, you can bet that who did the allowing is planning to personally gain from it. Still I can’t say that I disagree with the idea, especially seeing as how a draft is a distinct possibility. Wouldn't it be funny if the kids voted to turn their 0.5 vote into a 2?
     
  21. Captain_Crunch Club Ninja Valued Senior Member

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    2,186
    I cant understand how you can say that the majority has got their way if the majority of people dont vote. I would rather make people vote then we know for sure instead of saying the majority of people might want this government.
    The worlds so fucked up, what does it matter if they start letting kiddies vote.

    When I were at school (about 3 years ago), we used to have school elections and there were candidates representing their parties. They had Labour, Conservative, Green and Libdem, there was also the Raving Mad Loony Party. With most of the school voting, from ages 14 - 17, the Raving Mad Loony Party won the elections. Sure, it doesnt mean anything in practicable terms but I think this reflects the attitude you have at that age - an irresponsible one. You start developing political ideas from 16 I reckon, so having to wait 2 years (the voting age is 18 here) gives you ample time to develop these ideas then by the time your 18 you understand the concept of consequences.
     
  22. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

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    I think that voting should be mandatory. If a person seeks to protest by not voting, he should still have to vote; but vote for none of the above or similar. If someone is protesting something, not voting isn't a very good indicator of that protest. It seems more like disinterest than protest.

    edit: and to post on topic, I don't feel children should be allowed to vote. The whole 1/4 vote, 1/2 vote thing smells fishy to me... No offense Goofyfish

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  23. zanket Human Valued Senior Member

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    It’s statistics. If you ask 4,000 random people their opinion on anything, you can be 95% confident that their opinion represents the opinion of all of the group from whom you randomly selected the 4,000. Only 1 out of 20 times can you expect a false reading; that is, a different answer than you’d have gotten had you polled the entire group no matter how large.

    If 5% of the nation votes on anything, you can be something like 99.999% confident. It’s a waste of resources (gas for driving to the polls etc.) for more people to vote just to get a higher confidence level, because the odds that the outcome falsely represented everyone are only one in (1 / (1 - 99.999%)) = 100,000. If you held the election over and over again 100,000 times with 5% of the nation voting, only once would you expect a different outcome than if everyone voted.

    The majority of people and a majority opinion are unrelated. Let 55% of the people turn out to vote on Bush vs. Gore. Let 60% be for Gore and 40% for Bush. If all the Bush supporters turn out but only 25% of the Gore supporters turn out, there’s your (40% + (25% * 60%)) = 55% turnout. A majority voted but the less popular candidate wins.

    Irresponsible or not, a 17 year-old should have some say in a draft that might kill them at 18.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2004

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