The Bible. Myth or Reality?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Greatest I am, May 21, 2015.

  1. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Then God is nothing.
    (drops microphone)
     
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  3. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Right, no thing.

    jan.
     
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  5. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    Justification, reasoning, that which sets out the thought process behind the claim.
    I didn't say you haven't given a definition, I said that you haven't given an explanation, and said that a definition is not an explanation.
    You have set God aside through your definition, not through explanation.
     
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  7. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    If I don't give an explanation to your satisfaction, does it mean the definition isn't true?

    jan.
     
  8. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    The definition may be true, but to show it is true you need to provide justification, not just assertion. Asserting the truth of the definition (or of the existence of that which is defined) simply because that is the definition, is begging the question. Asserting the veracity of an exception without justification is special pleading.
     
  9. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    You just accusing me of special pleading, when you know I'm not, does nothing to advance the discussion.
    If you think it is possible that God's transcendence could be true, then you are wasting, not only mine, but you're own time, if you are indeed searching for truth, by positing philosophical mumbo jumbo. There's is time for it, but it's not in this particular discussion.

    jan.
     
  10. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Because you make God the exception to your own rule (that everything has a cause). It's a logical fallacy that renders the argument invalid.
     
  11. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    I don't make God the exception. God, by definition, isn't the same as everything else.
    If you don't accept the definition, that's not my problem. But I'm not begging the question.

    jan.
     
  12. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    On the contrary, Jan: I know you are special pleading, hence the accusation. That you merely hand-wave it away with claims that I'm somehow falsely accusing you and doing so on purpose is what doesn't advance the discussion.
    You don't counter the accusation in any way, you simply cry foul.
    That's it, Jan, throw your toys out of your pram.

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    Evade the issues yet again. It is your forte after all.
     
  13. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    Seriously, you wouldn't know circular reasoning if you threw it and it hit you on the back of the head!
     
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  14. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Doesn't work that way. If there is an exception for God, then there can be an exception to the rule of cause and effect for the Big Bang too, since it also isn't the same as everything else.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2016
  15. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    And yet Jan has been doing this exact thing for the last few years now, but nobody seems to care.
     
  16. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Jan Ardena:

    Because Science is the evidence-based study of the natural world and history is the evidence-based study of the past. Religion, on the other hand, contains (among other things) unverifiable stories, parables, fictional accounts of the past, and on on. Myth consists of unverifiable stories, fictional accounts of the past, etc. moreso than it contains evidence-based studies of the natural world or the past.

    It's not an all-or-nothing thing. Lots of threads on this forum could arguably fit into more than one subforum. If you want to argue that a thread titled "The bible, Myth or Reality" would be better located in a subforum other than Religion, go right ahead and make your case.

    I am happy to concede that God could exist (it's a possibility that we can't rule out). Personally, I would never claim to know that God does not exist. There is some evidence that people put forward for God's existence, but I think it is very weak. I am not persuaded by any evidence that I have come across or had presented to me. I am always open to people who wish to put an argument that God exists. Right now, I know of no such argument that convinces me.

    The bible is a lengthy document. It doesn't just contain a few stories. It's not all about one thing. There's poetry in there. There are various bits of advice on how one ought to live (some of it conflicting). There's quite a lot of telling people what they should and shouldn't do. There are a lot of cautionary tales that are supposed to scare people into believing in God, lest they suffer his wrath. There are many contradictions. There's some historical information that can be extracted.

    What is seen clearly when one reads the bible is that it is a product of a particular people living in a particular place at a particular time. Without doubt it contains myths. We know this because there are stories in the bible that conflict with facts known from the various sciences (archaeology, history, paleontology, physics, mathematics, etc.)

    What do you mean by "ordinary"?

    If you mean a book written by human beings, or something like that, then all religious books are ordinary books. There are no supernatural books, if that's what you're getting at.

    Or maybe you mean that the bible contains extraordinary wisdom or knowledge or something. I do not believe that it does, but I am happy to be corrected if you wish to provide examples.

    I'm not sure how these things would bear on the question of the current discussion's appropriateness for the Religion subforum, though.

    Do you think that the human being twiddling the knob somehow determines the specifics of the patterns that form on the plate? Please explain how this occurs.

    What you have there is an assertion, not an explanation.

    Let me try to save you some time. Is a cause a thing?
     
  17. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Dust bunnies form under my bed on the same basic principle. But my wife thinks it's a devil, not a deity, behind them.
     
  18. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    If you knew the difference, you should be able to tell us. It seems pretty obvious that you don't know the difference either.
    So you're a Hindu? Since the topic is about the Bible, how do your Hindu beliefs mesh with Judeo-Christian beliefs?
     
  19. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    If you're okay with that, so am I.

    I'm a hindu?
    We were talking about scriptures.
    What is it that I'm supposed to mesh exactly?

    jan.
     
  20. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    And they make no sense without God.

    It's futile comprehension exercise if you're too afraid to talk about the the character, personality, and attributes of God, in positive light.
    It doesn't matter where you put it, there will always be something missing. So I take it back it is as good here as it is anywhere else on these forums.

    God will never exist for you, until He does.
    It's good fun discussing God with people who deny God, while/or/and complaining about how horrible He is, in some cases, the same paragraph.
    It make for good thinking practise.

    But because the thread is in the religion forum, it is, or supposed to be, primarily about God. The object of religion, and thorn in the side lack of belief by the atheists.

    He knows what He is doing according to his abilities.
    God, however, is a different kettle of fish. Ooh!

    jan.
     
  21. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    You could have just admitted that you don't know what you're talking about and saved us both a lot of time.
    You quoted Hindu scriptures. The topic is the Bible. If there were Bible scriptures to back your case, why wouldn't you quote them?
     
  22. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Jan thinks they are all more or less the same. In fact thinks all religions are monotheistic and their differences irrelevant. Talk about delusional.
     
  23. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    I could have, but I would have been wrong.

    I don't feel like it.
    What. Are you scared to discuss scripture?

    What happened to: However, I will gladly play duelling scriptures with you and let the intelligent members of the forum decide who knows what.
    Quit yapping and discuss scripture, or shut up.

    jan.
     

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