The caravan is coming

Discussion in 'Politics' started by fess, Oct 28, 2018.

  1. fess Registered Senior Member

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    What should the US do when a caravan of 5000 poor , desperate people arrive at the southern border?
     
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  3. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Set up a camp with shelters, kitchens, bathrooms, laundry facilities and first aid stations.
     
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  5. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    A process has to be established to accommodate the arrival of not only 5000 or so now but many more that may follow.
    It is similar to the dilemma we face in Australia.
    The solution to the threat of significant mass migration may be similar as well.
    1. Lease a large area of land from the Mexican Government
    2. Build a refugee camp/settlement/processing center on this land in Mexico. ( Provision to extend on an as needed basis)
    3. Forbid any illegal entry into the USA.
    4. All asylum seekers sent to this processing center.
    5. All migrating persons who cross the border illegally or seeking asylum automatically with out exception sent to this processing center.
    6. Establish industries to supply work for these refugees in surrounding neighborhoods ( replace Chinese imports perhaps?) to help off set the cost of their accommodation ( rent ). ( allow disposable income earning)
    7. Encourage local asylum ( in Mexico) and return of refugees to place of origin.
    8. Support and encourage local Mexican economic development.
    9. Make it totally clear that entry to the USA will not be allowed except through this processing center(s)
    10. Make it totally clear that processing will take between 2 to 5 years. ( too discourage mass migration)
    11. Set a maximum stay time ( 5 years) before either migration/asylum acceptance or deportation back to place of origin.
    12. Invite the UN and aid organizations to assist.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
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  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Five thousand isn't that many. There are more refugees than that from Puerto Rico's hurricane.

    The Mexican government is not necessarily going to be all cooperative and like that. They have been dealing with the consequences of US drug and Central American policy since Reagan and the Contras - they may present a bill for services startling in its order of magnitude.
    That's a violation of international treaty and US law - refugees seeking asylum are legal border crossers, and cannot legally be deported without an official denial of asylum. The ones threatened and victimized by consequences of US policy and influence in their home countries have a moral and ethical claim, as well.
    It's also something else the Mexican government is not going to be happy about. Who exactly is keeping this "processing center" secure?
    This administration is not capable of that - either making anything clear, or dealing with such processing on a timetable.
    The Mexican government knows that, and will view the establishment of this "processing center" accordingly.
     
  8. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Playing the devils advocate...

    Let us say for example the situation deteriorates in South America so much so that a couple of million migrants start heading North, with a few million more to come... what then?
    The laws and rights created were not designed to accommodate such scales especially for mass migration of "economic" refugees.
    The laws both local and international need to be redrawn to deal with global mass migration issues.
    The only way to deal with this in a humane and ordered fashion and keep domestic peace would be to use an "offshore" or otherwise external processing facility.
    The aim would be to
    • Discourage mass migration by creating a time delay or buffer. 3-5 years for processing.
    • To avoid major conflict domestically due to uncontrolled migration in such numbers.
    • To encourage development and economic opportunity at point of origin and Mexico locally.
    • To allow in this case Mexico, an opportunity to make refugee processing a valuable humanitarian industry. Job creation, economic growth and infrastructure development.

    The issue is really a pragmatic one as well as humanitarian.

    The cost of allowing border crossings of potentially millions of refugees ( or forcing the Mexican government to set up camps instead after potentially using the army to contain the migration with possible loss of life)
    versus
    the cost of establishing an "external" facility in Mexico that discourages mass migration. ( with the associated benefits for the Mexican economy) therefore maintaining a humanitarian position that placates the intense concerns of USA citizens.

    So far the Mexican Gov. has been tolerant of the refugees, but this may end in potentially deadly fashion once the USA military are utilized at the border.

    That said, Mexico needs a solution to a problem that the attraction of the USA is generating.

    "Extraordinary problems need extraordinary solutions" comes to mind...
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
  9. Capracus Valued Senior Member

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    Fly them all to Australia and bill the Mexican government for the airfare.
     
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  10. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Already happened, with Mexico itself after NAFTA.
    May happen again with climate change in Mexico.

    The best solution is to lean on the bad situation in wherever, so nobody wants to leave. Since the bad situations in SA are significantly the side effects of US policy in the first place, that should be possible.
     
  11. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
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  12. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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  13. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Set up a camp near the border for them. Process them to determine refugee status. We already have laws that cover this (at least, we do when the president isn't trying to actively subvert them.)
     
  14. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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  15. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    In the news here, we read about the serious deterioration of stability in South /Central America. Venezuela, Argentina and now Brazil.
    It appears the far right is about to take on government in Brazil. Far right Bolsonaro has won his election - SBS -Australia-29/10/2018
    Over all it leads to a sense of desperation and hopelessness in the poor which generates the trend towards thinking North America for potential salvation.
    The USA is not immune to the humanitarian crisis developing. In fact no wealthy nation is immune, including Australia.
     
  16. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Treat them as you hope to be treated when the hurricane, forest fire, tsunami, nuclear meltdown, oil-spill, ethnic cleansing or civil war drives you from your home.
     
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  17. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Well, if you take what is on the Statue of Liberty seriously... we should welcome them, clothe them, and give them aid and comfort.

    Also, official numbers put it at well under 5,000 people - somewhere between a thousand and 1500 have already applied for refugee status in Mexico as I understand it, and there is only about 2200 people left at this time, many of whom are expected to also apply for refugee status/asylum either in Mexico or the US.

    These caravans are nothing new... they've been going on for years, and the vast majority of people in them follow applicable laws and regulations to request asylum. They are being made a talking point by our "great" Orange Talking Head.
     
  18. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    Hard Right: You do understand that that statue is French, right?
     
  19. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    The poem he is referring to was written by Emma Lazarus, a New Yorker and a woman who worked to aid refugees at Ward Island. Her family were Sephardic Jews from Portugal, and she worked with Russian Jewish refugees. Her background gave her a uniquely American view of immigration - an immigrant from generations back, working with immigrants from another country, all coming together to make up America.
     
  20. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    Where was he referring to a poem. Missed that.
     
  21. geordief Valued Senior Member

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    The poem on the Statue of Liberty.
     
  22. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, that. I was wondering if there was something else being discussed. Thanks.
     
  23. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    " if you take what is on the Statue of Liberty seriously" (i.e. the poem about "give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free")
     

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