The Confederate Flag

Discussion in 'World Events' started by dumbest man on earth, Jun 15, 2020.

  1. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    1,761
    No, you're just ignorant of the facts, including Wisconsin gun laws.
    No, he was being chased before he shot the first guy, and someone in that mob fired a gun before he did.
    Carrying is not brandishing, but I wouldn't expect you to know that. Oh, you mean his victim that tried to hit him in the head with a skateboard or his victim that was aiming a gun at him?
     
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  3. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    seriously jesus fuck stupid and arrogant. im from wisconsin and a minor is not allowed openly carry a long arm. seriously don't tell people their wrong when you don't what the fuck your talking about.

    i believe you believe these lies to be true but there not. and the only people with guns were the miltia so nice of you to admit they are a mob. the protestors didn't fire a gun and he wasn't chased before he started murdering people.were a mob.

    no but aiming at people like he did is. and quit acting like your an expert. your a dumbass who cant get the most basic of facts right.
    no hit him in the head with a skateboard. the skateboarder bumped in the arm with his board trying to dearm a murderer. so the terrorist gets to claim self defense from people not trying to hurt him but someone is not allowed to point a gun at him after he you know murdered to people? you are a special kind of stupid and evil. that you are defending a murder says all we need to know about you and your delusional fantasy world morality, murders are defending themselves and their victims are the aggressors for daring to defend them selves. your a great nazi
     
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  5. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    18,816
    So how do you explain the fact that he shot one of his victims in the back?
     
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  7. Bells Staff Member

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    23,500
    Pretty sure I stated the facts.


    Rittenhouse shot dead his first victim after the unarmed man threw a plastic bag at him and tried to grab his gun, the complaint alleges. His second victim was allegedly killed after trying to grab Rittenhouse’s gun while swinging at the teen with a skateboard. An extradition hearing has been postponed to September 25. [https://bit.ly/2Zija9Y]


    Were more plastic bags about to be thrown?

    Doesn't the NRA suggest that when confronted with a shooter, you use whatever is on hand to try to disarm him?

    Rittenhouse's victims tried to disarm an active shooter.

    Rittenhouse had no business being there. He drove from out of state and town to be there with his guns and was hyped up when talking to the media before he murdered 2 people. He went to the protest while armed, broke the law in the process, because this was the event he wanted to happen. We are talking about a man who had no qualms in ganging up on a girl and beating the shit out of her .. And like the cowardly little snot that he is, he attacked her from behind.

    He crossed state lines with a gun, broke curfew, and killed two people and seriously injured a 3rd .. He went out of his way to do this. The threat wasn't at his door. He went out of his way to attack people.

    But hey, you're the one who is defending a murderer and coward who beats up women from behind. I can understand why you might have issues in understanding how his actions are actually wrong.

    Not to mention illegal.

    Well, white murderer with a gun is not deemed a threat.. He gets a high 5 and a bottle of water and thanks.

    Unarmed black men? Such a threat that they are gunned down willy nilly. Same thing with unarmed black women and children.

    That's the difference, isn't it? A white man murders 2 people in front of police and he's not deemed a threat. And who got the free pass? Murder 2 people and then be allowed to go home..

    Honestly, your argument is so ridiculous that one cannot take you seriously at all..

    Foreigner..

    Tell me, do you hiss that at people who look foreign as you walk down the street? Do you often call people with brown skin foreigner?

    Your racism is a caricature that deserves to be mocked Vociferous. You are dribbling over yourself defending white supremacism and a murderer.

    How's that tiki torch?

    Facts are facts.

    We are talking about white supremacism and racism and this is your response?

    White supremacists weren't marching and chanting?

    Or Trump did not compare them as being "nice people"..?

    The irony of this is that you froth at the mouth reporting every single person who calls you dumb, an idiot, etc and you expect us to take you and your reports seriously?

    This was already addressed.

    Really, you have issues.

    Ecnarongi?
    Ya, you cherry picked.

    And the funniest thing is that you picked cases that made you look gormless.

    To the one, you are applying an American concept of Freedom of Speech to a completely different country with proper sets of laws and case law to back it up.

    To the other, every single case you flung back to where instances where people were racist and harmful in what can and are interpreted as being public areas or could be heard and/or seen from a public space.

    What makes your position and argument even more ridiculous is that your very own country and government is at present trying to extradite an Australian journalist who outed the actions of US soldiers in your war on terror and in your search for WMD's that didn't actually exist..

    As I said. In Australia and in most other countries with a functioning legal system.. You can be the racist twat that you are as much as you please so long as it's in private and does not affect others.

    Oh don't worry.

    I know this is your hill and you're on it, dying while gripping a tiki torch..
    You want to know how and why I know you died on the hill a long time ago?

    Because this was your go to. This is your "hill"..

    1. Ms Buhler claimed complete ignorance that Victoria and in particular Melbourne was in level 4 - this is despite said news of lockdown being on every radio, tv, social media sources, newspaper - for weeks.

    2. Ms Buhler had a Facebook post that incited people to break the law and risk the health and lives of other people around them. Victoria is in the midst of a horrific outbreak that's killed dozens of people and left thousands sick.​

    So here you are on this hill, thinking that inciting others to break the law should be legal? If someone incites another person to harm others, that would be illegal. Ms Buhler was inciting others to break the law and cause and risk the health and lives of others in the process. Not to mention her post was "inflammatory propaganda"

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    ..

    I linked you the actual case. You should read it for yourself. You know, before making an even bigger arse of yourself.
    Reading and comprehension is difficult for you, isn't it? Or are you such a dishonest hack that this is how low you sink?
     
  8. Bells Staff Member

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    23,500
    Australia does not have a Bill of Rights dude.. Why are you applying American standards to another country with a wholly different set of laws and customs?
    And you clearly have no clue of Australian history and how our First People have been treated and why their beliefs have to be protected..

    Yes, it was deemed abusive and intimidating for obvious reasons for anyone who understands the history of this country and the ongoing issues that the First People continue to face here.

    Given how history is full of examples of just how "just words" can intimidate and abuse others and lead to harassment and even death, your argument beggars belief..

    But we'll file this next time you conservatives start whining about the 'war on Christianity' when women attempt to exercise their rights over their bodies of when you are denied the right to foist your religious beliefs on unsuspecting children in public schools..

    Wait..

    Didn't you just go full on "this is my hill" just before to defend a woman who was inciting panic and inciting others to break the law and risk the lives of others and risk violence?

    I guess this explains why you defend white supremacists marching and threatening non-whites..

    You are free to have your opinions in private Vociferous. Countries have laws against public statements that cause harm and abuse and intimidate. Well, civilised countries that is.

    Uh huh..

    Have you told your President all of this? https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/trumps-warped-definition-free-speech/612316/

    Best be careful your white supremacist tiki torch does not set your strawman on fire..

    Oh look, another strawman..

    Read what I said in response to your comment and then perhaps actually respond to what I was saying in context.. Try. Just for me..

    Yep.

    It's everyone else and not you..

    You know, when you start to call people "foreigner" (if anyone wanted an example of your racism, that was it right there), when you go out of your way to defend white supremacy as you have done, when you start saying how people are proud of their heritage in response to commentary about white supremacism and racism.. It kind of says it all. You're like a walking example of white supremacism. You are openly racist and bigoted, particularly towards people who are not Americans.
     
  9. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,840
    and the fact that she was attempting to organize a protest against said LD laws even though she was pleading ignorance of the laws she wished to incite protests against...
    How daft can you get?
     
  10. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,816
    For all those people who see no possible link between the confederate flag and racism/fascism:

    (from a swap meet)
     

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  11. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    23,500
    Vociferous's "hill"..

    "I thought in Ballarat we are in stage three lockdown and I suppose I had a bit of a bimbo moment and I actually didn’t realise it wasn’t OK," Ms Buhler told radio station 3AW on Thursday.


    Ballarat has been in stage 3 stay at home lockdown for weeks and she apparently wasn't aware of this while organising a protest and inciting others to break stage 3 stay at home lockdown in regional Victoria and stage 4 lockdown in Melbourne, to come to Ballarat to protest said lockdown the self proclaimed bimbo is now claiming she wasn't aware existed..

    I don't think daft quite covers it.

    Now now Billvon, they are [checks notes]:

    *Chortle*
     
  12. candy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    868
    People perceive objects from their own heritage. To many people attacking the Confederate flag is attacking "Gone With the Wind", "The Rebel", and "The Dukes of Hazzard". You are ruining their myth of the past.
    Slavery did not originate in 1619. It has been part of human history for a very long time. That does not make slavery morally good but it also does not make people who believe in the myths of the past monsters.
    The past belongs in the past; we have enough to cope with in the present.


    I think that we do have to acknowledge that Rittenhouse had spent the day cleaning off some of the mess left by the protests. Witnesses have stated that he took his medical kit and gun to go help an injured person then he was pelted by something. It is a very sad situation for all involved.
     
  13. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,227
    fuck them
    the bullshit words of someone who has never been denied anything cause of their race. american slavery was actually rare by being hereditary. and was a somewhat unique horror


    no we fucking don't, that he did a small act of good doesn't change the fact he murdered 2 fucking people
    are you getting your witnesses from the same place as the angry ape? witnesses do say he was aiming his gun people repeatedly before he finally you know murdered people.
     
  14. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,816
    Very true. In addition, people can adopt objects from their own heritage without understanding their underlying meaning.
    Absolutely. Many protesters have done the same. That's not the problem. The problem was that he murdered people.
    I'd say it's a very sad situation for the families of the murdered protester and the guy who lost his arm. For him - not so much. He's healthy and has all his limbs. He may spend a long time in jail, but that's a whole lot better than being dead.
     
  15. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,840
    I wonder how you would view the past if the slaves were white instead of black?
    If it were white folk shackled in the fields, their white women being raped and their children being sold off...to be raped and enslaved.

    Reverse the situation and perhaps reconsider your post.
    The confederate heritage is of white folk enslaving black folk and all of what that enslavement means.
     
  16. candy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    868

    The kid is only 17 and started out with good intentions to help but it went terribly wrong. I can understand why he felt safer with the gun but it would have been better if he had not taken it with him then he might not have taken the med kit to render aid. It is sad when good intentions end in tragedy. I could argue that if that person had not thrown something at the kid this might never have happened. In most sad situations there is always a lot of blame to be shared.
     
  17. candy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    868

    Point of fact: There was white slavery primarily before the Revolution.
    The horrors endured by those enslaved can never be erased but the image of the stars and bars is tied to myths of a different way. Making "Uncle Tom's Cabin" required reading might help to educate the next generation. Screaming at people rarely produces results especially when you are trying to make them responsible for something they had no part in.
    It would be better to focus on making affirmative action workable.
     
  18. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,840
    I am confident that you will, due to your education on the matter be able to justify, in what you may consider to be a reasonable fashion the pride, in a Confederate history.
    Whether this is a right view or a wrong view is not the issue.
    What is the issue what most people in their ignorance (the ignorance you claim that they have) perceive the Confederate flag to represent.
    It is that perception that is important regardless of whether or not it is adequately informed or not.
    The world has a history of chattel slavery, one that most people in the 21st century find repugnant. It is important if the world is to move away from such systems and evolve in to a better place for that system to remain repugnant.
    Attempting to justify and gloss over the horrific nature of slavery doesn't help that evolution towards a more just and fair society.
     
  19. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,816
    Nope. The blame for rape rests on the rapist and not at all on the victim. The blame for theft rests on the thief and not at all on the storeowner he stole from. The blame for murder rests on the shooter and not at all on his victims.
     
  20. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,626
    Bullshit.
    The police encouraged a teenage whacko to bring a loaded, rapid-fire, military-styled rifle to a demonstration at which they knew (because they had planned so) there would be tense and angry confrontations. There is no excuse for police irresponsibility that flagrant, and they should be held accountable as accessories to murder in the second - or possibly first - degree.
    - - - -
    Bullshit.
    That is: Irrelevant, and not at all equivalent to the plantation slavery inflicted on black people. Beside the point.
    There was no transAtlantic trade in millions of white slaves. There were no plantations with white slave labor forces. There was no flag rallying the owners of white slaves to the cause of their "way of life".

    The Confederate flag was designed and flown to rally white supremacists to violent defense of the cause of white supremacy, and violent subjugation of black people. That is why it was, is, and will be, flown and otherwise displayed. It is a direct, intended, and serious physical threat of violence toward black people.
    - - - -
    It is tied to the myth of a white "race" that is naturally superior to an equally mythical "black" race, and has a natural right to enforce its status by physical violence. That is its explicit origin; that was, is, and will be, what it symbolizes and represents when displayed.
    And if someone had spotted that fool child, walked up behind him, and knocked him cold with a brick before he shot somebody, a couple of decent people who were doing nothing wrong would be alive today. Hindsight is 2020 - but we know what to do the next time the cops send a teenager with a loaded rifle into a crowd of law-abiding demonstrators: take the kid down, put a knee in their back, and choke them into submission. And throw their fucking rifle in the nearest dumpster.
    Next time, self defense may save a couple of innocent, sane, decent American lives.
    Wingnuts bringing rifles to street demonstrations do not have "good intentions" even as adults. There are no good intentions that involve a teenager with a loaded rifle wandering the public streets in the middle of a mass demonstration. That kid was a public threat to everyone within a mile of his location.
    If you need to spread blame: The police who encouraged his teenage screwed up behavior, who praised him for his flagrantly crazy acting out of juvenile fantasy, were doing a very poor job of enforcing law and order, and should pay some of the price - he was just a kid.
     

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